From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 17 17:57:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8112C2F9A for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:57:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493kLq0CHsz4LyG for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:57:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id i3so3208891ioo.13 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:57:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=87MEYbiUBv34Uu44BO6CoeXnSCRLmA5TbykT2lrfI8Y=; b=hchnfgWXzYzykSe8MS/idP1ArTvF7IvVYYVIFUKnAhwNPNi7ReZIc8SB/OCLfsomLB CgZ+ggztlzEmiuREJRZrKgwhgjnEKOhk6wMLwA1PbcQHfjXyi1u8fIMmCdlSGKKKTTBR FiP5+2maaoZisfH4+nW9YOwnhZ5CzGB2KZjEXKXCvTBOMJxFlR8rtXoym4EmtdWdC48l 2Uh/sgRaU+FkW6qvmgPSsRBo5U7c/e2fkIGiTaRb6F16novwyAAgPjWKrw9oplsRFMFy uRaFPL2cTkaz+6CY5tw+OqdNAv6cWKZW6PxYCkMWdIxNV5Y1yyP3u5xh4o6u+Z95ncQp Shmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=87MEYbiUBv34Uu44BO6CoeXnSCRLmA5TbykT2lrfI8Y=; b=pjqIBTBcqQDE64tM9vrIY7KsnTLbRQb43XGOEy7wzGbT+nBJXDtamL7KuabbKV9qSJ I9woVKCmmNyMtOa8FxFNLP2uoolFPrxxhxDOqY56ggFYPKmMDa9Gvr9CgT9pvKOhvMXB lAiVTcp4zPO1upwHXKwv6SBf+J4k2qXJM/eu5bhXy5QozkZV/edMeAnyUP4isIg5C3fa TLpWgW8greQIZet+/+HWTb1FQjDxV+rJVV0p/eHU0bytnQFa0CcAzleakPdhm9cWXfOo ircwC30q8WqHqeWqFj5SXgBs1in1r2oh+OguLAvDljDLswHP+KF3jy7lwiBB3HO+BMya y2rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaAV0uAUIjXg/IURmsB6vom8VZQj7i8cdUa07uUsgvZOWTL75WT r0QSRbVELthq96e0hzN0m4GRJh0GxT99TKojCog= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLmFulF+/VlsawALp7U/nzd6N7o210HKOzJYT/gZFrFe7JhQl/17ZV4hxYMtm+Lk1DUuPO8NAKa6ULKjkEI8rM= X-Received: by 2002:a02:ac1:: with SMTP id 184mr4521073jaw.138.1587146225663; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 10:57:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> <20200417181142.5f7a613b@archlinux> <20200417193105.0ec80c89@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200417193105.0ec80c89@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:56:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 493kLq0CHsz4LyG X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=hchnfgWX; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[13]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-6.84), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:57:08 -0000 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 1:31 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:43:07 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#SubscriptionFee (Which > >forbids the example you gave) > > This is utter nonsense. It says: > > "Can I use GPLed software on a device that will stop operating if > customers do not continue paying a subscription fee? > > No. In this scenario, the requirement to keep paying a fee limits the > user's ability to run the program. This is an additional requirement on > top of the GPL, and the license prohibits it." > > Ardour (the software example I gave) does not stop working, if a > customer stops paying the Ardour subscription. > There wording on their site sure makes it sound like you need to pay for a subscription (you need to read it with a very fine toughed comb to see that it doesn't.... which proves once again anyone who attempts to make a living with GPL stuff has to do so with some very sketchy and misleading wording).... From https://community.ardour.org/about_subscriptions: Why Subscriptions? It is much easier to manage the revenue flow from people who decide to pay to support the development Ardour if it arrives in a somewhat steady stream rather than big bumps when we release new versions. One-time payments for downloads and one-time donations are still welcome ways to support Ardour development, of course. ... I can't/won't subscribe but I want to pay and get updates Pay at least US$45 for a particular version and you'll get all updates to that version and the next next major version without paying again. For example, pay this much or more for version 4.0, and you will get 4.1, 4.2 etc and 5.0 for without us asking you to pay again. [To the causal reader that certainly looks like it "requires" money. Only someone who is already familar with GPL would be equipped to not read it that way. This is the very "morally questionable" behavior FSF was founded to avoid] > The GPL probably contains several pitfalls, but IMO this isn't one of > them. > > It's possible to make a living from GPL'ed software and even to use > GPL'ed software and a Linux kernel "in a life critical application", > while not being an "idiot". The comment about life critical was about the stability of linsucks not it's license. And of course it is possible to make a living from being a bottom feeding piranha just ask Red Hat who takes work from other people does very little creative work (in some cases none) and then charges for it. Mean while the original authors gave up any claim to being to make a living from it when they made if GPL (at least under BSD they can charge for the parts that not open source as long they give credit for the open source parts). If you want more detail on this see the interview I did in BSDMag (Dec. 2016) where I explain in a lot better detail (and clearer terms then here) why GPL is not compatible with mere mortal developers who do not work for governments, universities or big tech. Also you might want to check the ports maintainer list and the license on the site I list in my signature before you accuse me of taking and not giving back. My general rule is any general purpose and/or library code I do that is not custom made for a specific client is open source under the BSD license. The reason for BSD and not GPL is so I am not forced to reveal the source code of the custom work to anyone but the client (most of my clients would fire me instantly if I ever did). > It's probably a good idea to put some > effort in development and maintenance of "life critical" software and > hardware, what ever license applies, what ever operating system and > hardware is used. > See above (it is a 100% custom coded system). _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org