Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:54:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> Subject: Re: Firefox or what? Message-ID: <339518345.5751661.1565877287760@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190815130549.a8dd5cbda66719d356fdf88f@sohara.org> References: <20190812173754.9bbd34f75885d616ae5d074a@gc-24.de> <20190812164800.1bc5581b40de9436a977ea02@sohara.org> <875zn22mmc.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <d968aa28-dd43-ba88-f1f7-846330e9ed0c@netfence.it> <871rxorh4y.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <5be8adb1-cf57-9e24-4ce9-27a76cc3ece8@netfence.it> <20190815123705.4ac8a2d8c005971b83a5dceb@gc-24.de> <20190815130549.a8dd5cbda66719d356fdf88f@sohara.org>
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Hi,
I also, have no issues with .0 from FreeBSD.
I entirely ignore all Linux kernel major releases for at LEAST 6 months to =
get rid of the major issues.
Then I wait for the functional and security exploit patches for the next 2-=
4 years.
Again, calling a RELEASE a BETA without understanding the project, reading =
the release process and the release notes. Quite possibly, maybe you don't =
even understanding the difference of a BETA vs RC and the levels thereof.=
=20
Refusing to produce any documentation regarding the environment, the config=
uration, etc...
QA, TEST, RELEASE, BUG TRACKING are all handled in the traditional (aka the=
most painstaking manner of software engineering perfection) in the FreBSD =
project.=C2=A0=20
You refuse to read.=C2=A0 You refuse to write.=C2=A0 You point at irrelevan=
t bugs.
Just a troll.=C2=A0 However, the interesting this is you remind me almost i=
dentically of the same troll that shows up every 6 months on this list.
Anyhow, here's your information and I hope that the very helpful people on =
this list realize there are no problems here, just a consumption of resourc=
es.
DNS server handling your query: localhost
DNS server's address:=09127.0.0.1#53
=20
Non-authoritative answer:
gc-24.de=09mail exchanger =3D 10 mail.gc-24.de.
gc-24.de
=09origin =3D ns1.antagus.de
=09mail addr =3D root.ns1.antagus.de
=09serial =3D 1449586308
=09refresh =3D 10800
=09retry =3D 3600
=09expire =3D 604800
=09minimum =3D 3600
Name:=09gc-24.de
Address: 46.227.95.21
gc-24.de=09nameserver =3D ns1.antagus.de.
gc-24.de=09nameserver =3D ns2.antagus.de.
=20
Authoritative answers can be found from:
P
On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 9:25:06 AM EDT, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve=
@sohara.org> wrote: =20
=20
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:37:05 +0200
hw <hw@gc-24.de> wrote:
> Then why doesn't the documentation warn about this?=C2=A0 I was trying to
> find out what the recommended stable version is, and that seems to be
> 12 release.=C2=A0 Why call it release when it's still beta?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is a release, the first release in a major version th=
at has
been through all the normal release engineering process with particular
care applied to new features and major rewrites as you would expect from
any well run release engineering team.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many people prefer to avoid the first release in a major=
version of
*anything* because new features and major rewrites often have unexpected
side effects and bugs that don't come to light until after release.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FreeBSD historically (I've been using it since 1.1.5) ha=
s been
pretty good at .0 release (kudos to the release engineering teams - and
let us draw a kindly veil over 5.0[1]) but nobody is perfect and expecting
the worst of .0 releases is sensible caution.
[1] There were good reasons this was a painful disaster.
--=20
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org=
"
=20
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 14:01:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com>
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <351168444.5755609.1565877673847@mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <339518345.5751661.1565877287760@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20190812173754.9bbd34f75885d616ae5d074a@gc-24.de>
<20190812164800.1bc5581b40de9436a977ea02@sohara.org>
<875zn22mmc.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
<d968aa28-dd43-ba88-f1f7-846330e9ed0c@netfence.it>
<871rxorh4y.fsf@toy.adminart.net>
<5be8adb1-cf57-9e24-4ce9-27a76cc3ece8@netfence.it>
<20190815123705.4ac8a2d8c005971b83a5dceb@gc-24.de>
<20190815130549.a8dd5cbda66719d356fdf88f@sohara.org>
<339518345.5751661.1565877287760@mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firefox or what?
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Also, I appreciated the helpfulness of the people on this list.=C2=A0 Howe=
ver, since there doesn't seem to be any issues that aren't relevant or made=
up here, please take the ongoing issue offlist if possible.
Have a conversation via e-mail with hw directly so the rest of us who want =
to help people or have genuine issues they need help with can continue to d=
o so.
If you actually do encounter a real issue, it wouldn't be a bad thing to po=
st a synopsis and resolution to the maillist after the fact.
It's that simple.
Thank for doing so,
P.
On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 9:55:04 AM EDT, Paul Pathiakis via freebs=
d-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: =20
=20
Hi,
I also, have no issues with .0 from FreeBSD.
I entirely ignore all Linux kernel major releases for at LEAST 6 months to =
get rid of the major issues.
Then I wait for the functional and security exploit patches for the next 2-=
4 years.
Again, calling a RELEASE a BETA without understanding the project, reading =
the release process and the release notes. Quite possibly, maybe you don't =
even understanding the difference of a BETA vs RC and the levels thereof.=
=20
Refusing to produce any documentation regarding the environment, the config=
uration, etc...
QA, TEST, RELEASE, BUG TRACKING are all handled in the traditional (aka the=
most painstaking manner of software engineering perfection) in the FreBSD =
project.=C2=A0=20
You refuse to read.=C2=A0 You refuse to write.=C2=A0 You point at irrelevan=
t bugs.
Just a troll.=C2=A0 However, the interesting this is you remind me almost i=
dentically of the same troll that shows up every 6 months on this list.
Anyhow, here's your information and I hope that the very helpful people on =
this list realize there are no problems here, just a consumption of resourc=
es.
DNS server handling your query: localhost
DNS server's address:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 127.0.0.1#53
=20
Non-authoritative answer:
gc-24.de=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mail exchanger =3D 10 mail.gc-24.de.
gc-24.de
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 origin =3D ns1.antagus.de
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 mail addr =3D root.ns1.antagus.de
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 serial =3D 1449586308
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 refresh =3D 10800
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 retry =3D 3600
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 expire =3D 604800
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 minimum =3D 3600
Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 gc-24.de
Address: 46.227.95.21
gc-24.de=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 nameserver =3D ns1.antagus.de.
gc-24.de=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 nameserver =3D ns2.antagus.de.
=20
Authoritative answers can be found from:
P
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 9:25:06 AM EDT, Steve O'Hara-Sm=
ith <steve@sohara.org> wrote:=C2=A0=20
=20
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:37:05 +0200
hw <hw@gc-24.de> wrote:
> Then why doesn't the documentation warn about this?=C2=A0 I was trying to
> find out what the recommended stable version is, and that seems to be
> 12 release.=C2=A0 Why call it release when it's still beta?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is a release, the first release in a major version th=
at has
been through all the normal release engineering process with particular
care applied to new features and major rewrites as you would expect from
any well run release engineering team.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many people prefer to avoid the first release in a major=
version of
*anything* because new features and major rewrites often have unexpected
side effects and bugs that don't come to light until after release.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FreeBSD historically (I've been using it since 1.1.5) ha=
s been
pretty good at .0 release (kudos to the release engineering teams - and
let us draw a kindly veil over 5.0[1]) but nobody is perfect and expecting
the worst of .0 releases is sensible caution.
[1] There were good reasons this was a painful disaster.
--=20
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org=
"
=C2=A0=20
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
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"
=20
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 18:23:11 +0200
From: hw <hw@gc-24.de>
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Firefox or what?
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<20190812164800.1bc5581b40de9436a977ea02@sohara.org>
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On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 14:51:17 +0200
Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:37:05 +0200, hw wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:21:18 +0200
> > Andrea Venturoli <ml@netfence.it> wrote:
> >
> > > On 8/13/19 11:34 PM, hw wrote:
> > >
> > > > After all this, I wouldn't be surprised if FreeBSD-NFS is incompatible
> > > > with Centos-NFS.
> > >
> > > Sorry, but you didn't say that in your first post.
> >
> > It was neither relevant, nor known in the first post. If Firefox
> > generally doesn't work with FreeBSD, that would have been an
> > explanation, and that was what I wanted to know. Seeing that so many
> > things are missing from the version FreeBSD uses is not exactly
> > encouraging.
>
> What do you consider "missing from FreeBSD's Firefox version"?
> Am I reading this correctly?
I'm referring to the list of missing things that is being displayed
when you install the package.
> Given that the FreeBSD version of Firefox version is essentially
> the Linux version of Firefox _ported_ to FreeBSD, I cannot imagine
> things are "missing" - except maybe those that heavily rely on
> Linux mechanisms that don't exist on FreeBSD, but then, the
> "Windows" version of Firefox would miss them, too.
It's still not encouraging.
> > That NFS doesn't work right was unexpected and unknown, and I was
> > assuming that NFS is compatible with NFS since anything else doesn't
> > make sense.
>
> As others have confirmed their NFS settings are working fully
> as expected, you should review your configuration. You already
> could confirm that it works among Linux systems, if I remember
> correctly. So FreeBSD is "the new part" here. It still leaves
> the possibility (!) that "Linux NFS" is broken in a way that
> it only works with Linux, and not entirely as expected with
> non-Linux systems such as FreeBSD.
That is certainly a possibility. It's not relevant, though.
> I've been running NFS setups with Linux, BSD, and Solaris, but
> that way mamy years ago. Maybe things have disimproved since ... ;-)
>
>
>
> > > Again, this might be a problem with FreeBSD, a problem in CentOS, a
> > > problem with how you configured them...
> > > We cannot tell if you don't provide info.
> > > Also, I'd be suprised if this only affected FireFox (which was the
> > > original subject), as several other programs wouldn't work then...
> >
> > Firefox was the one I tried to get to work; if others didn't work
> > either, I didn't get so far as to find it out other than a while ago
> > when it turned out that NFS in FreeBSD sucks because it's incapable of
> > exporting directories with the permissions as required.
>
> Could that be a configuration problem?
No, it is a feature. There is even a bug report about it.
> Again, it would help if you could quickly describe your setup.
There is no way to describe it quickly. Multiple servers, PXE boot
setups, VLANs and switches from different manufacturers are involved.
> [...]
> > > Everything here is FreeBSD based.
> >
> > So that is already a difference.
>
> Definitely. Interoperability can lead to the "funniest"
> explorations... :-)
That would be one of the reasons for which it would be unwise to use
FreeBSD any more than I'm using it now.
> > > > What will you do when you run into bug 220004?
> > >
> > > I don't know.
> > > I'm not using 12 yet: I see .0 releases (of any software) as potentially
> > > immature and buggy and I'm absolutely not switching until 12.1 is
> > > out.
> >
> > Then why doesn't the documentation warn about this?
>
> Because (1) nobody noticed yet, and (2) because the attitude
> to not use .0 software is nothing "standard", but a specific
> preference of certain people (who probably have good reasons
> to do so). Personally, I've never been bitten by a .0 version
> of FreeBSD. I run Firefox successfully on 12.0-p7/i386, but
> there is no NFS involved.
The bug is over 2 years old, so people have noticed.
I'm usually not keen on using software right away the day it comes out
and rather give it a while so bugs can be discovered and fixed.
FreeBSD wasn't released the day I started using it and has a
reputation.
> > I was trying to
> > find out what the recommended stable version is, and that seems to be
> > 12 release. Why call it release when it's still beta?
>
> Because it isn't beta. FreeBSD has strong guidelines in place
> that prevent immature software to be released as a -RELEASE
> version: alpha, beta, release candidate(s), release version.
> But mistakes _can_ happen, and bugs might slip through. That's
> what the patches are for. So if you plan a new installation,
> you should use the current release, which is 12.0, and after
> installation, use freebsd-update to get the available patches.
That's what I thought.
> If you wish to use an older version, that's possible too, and
> that would be 11.3, which _also_ has the status of "production
> release", so it's _not_ legacy.
I like upgrading only so much ...
> More information here:
>
> https://www.freebsd.org/releases/
>
> Or you wait until 12.1, but that's probably not a solution here.
Right, I needed the solution a couple weeks ago. At least it's
finally in testing.
And who says 12.1 would work better.
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