From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 15:26:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE3D16A416 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:26:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80C143C9D for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:25:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2423B1A3C1C; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 07:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2C7615133E; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:03 -0500 From: Kris Kennaway To: Josh Paetzel Message-ID: <20061205152602.GA24071@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:23 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:07:50PM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Monday 04 December 2006 21:10, David Kelly wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for > > > josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my > > > name on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list > > > archives looking for responses from me. I have, and do, > > > contribute to FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to > > > complain a bit. I fully intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as > > > possible, I just can't help but wonder if the slow leaks I see > > > now are serious. > > > > Know what I like best about FreeBSD? That this thread has NOT > > become a flamefest. That FreeBSD users and developers know the > > difference between constructive criticism and a troll. Know how to > > take constructive criticism, and how to ignore a troll. And just so > > there isn't any doubt, Josh's posting is "constructive criticism." > > > > -- > > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. >=20 > I started and run the local BSD user group, and I've always been=20 > interested in seeing what the local LUG does, so I read their mailing=20 > list. One of the things I've always noticed is that the LUG mailing=20 > list is one big flame-fest. In the years our BUG has been in=20 > existance we've had one thread that was at all hostile, and it was=20 > the result of someone posting a bunch of political propaganda during=20 > the 04 presidential elections. We also have an IRC channel on=20 > freenode, and just the other day I went to kick someone out for the=20 > first time, only to find I wasn't on the access list. (For the=20 > record, the only reason I wanted to kick them is their client was=20 > dorked up and caught in a join/part cycle) What I'm getting at is=20 > that the FreeBSD community is for the most part terrific. For the=20 > record I haven't gotten anything close to a flame from anyone, either=20 > onlist or off. >=20 > To be fair, I should mention the things that I think are awesome about=20 > FreeBSD. >=20 > 1) The ports tree. Not without it's faults, but if you know how to=20 > massage it properly I think it's the best package management system=20 > in existance in the open source world....and it's better than any of=20 > the proprietary ones I've used from commercial vendors too. >=20 > 2) The documentation. Chances are, if you want to do it it has=20 > excellent OFFICIAL documentation. My hats off to everyone that=20 > slaves away on the doc team. >=20 > 3) The filesystem layout. Simply fantastic. The seperation between=20 > the base system and 3rd party apps is a godsend. >=20 > 4) The ease of updating the base system. Sure, there have been some=20 > ugly upgrade paths between major version numbers. (2.x -> 3.x) and=20 > the fact that there's no feasible way to get UFS2 without a reinstall=20 > making 4.x -> 5.x || 6.x somewhat pointless, but even so, 5.x -> 6.x=20 > is cake, as was 3.x -> 4.x which is impressive. And minor version=20 > numbers are of course trivial. Actually there's something evil you can do involving using your swap partition as a temporary root mount so you can pivot over onto a new / and then reinitialize your slice a. You still need to dump and restore your other partitions though. OTOH, UFS2 isn't really necessary unless you need it. Kris --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFdY+KWry0BWjoQKURAu//AJ9fmF7w+JJYbcmNGrM6ukJy/CrgywCgs3HL moJljD9rOa4deVEWoJQjipo= =orGO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh--