From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 17 17:13:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26324 for freebsd-current-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:13:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-31-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26314 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:13:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id DAA14132 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:12:29 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811180112.DAA14132@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Heads up file In-Reply-To: from Jason Fesler at "Nov 17, 98 03:06:16 pm" To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:12:26 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id RAA26320 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Fesler wrote: > > | If you are not on the FreeBSD-current mailing list you will > > | not see the comments that people are making about the > .. .. Which is noisy beyond believe at times - signal to noise ratio is > pretty bad pretty often. We seem to be trying to get more exposure to the > 3.0 branch - checkouts of "." are now spitting out 3.0. With the people > now using 3.0 it's somethings a bit much to ask they stay current with > current (no pun intended). > > > | The cvs-all mailing list will allow you to see the commit > > Oh, those are easy to read quicky ;-). Definately invaluable but not the > quickest to get through. > > > Now, it is obvious that people are _not_ reading this. Do you think the > > people who are not reading this are any more likely to read a HEADSUP > > file? If not, then it's requires work that doesn't have a meaningful > > payoff. > > I think this mainly depends on where it's placed. If it were prominantly > placed, it might take a few sticks of clue (Hey! Either read "current" or > at least read the heads up file!), but catch on quickly enough. Many folks are presently treating FreeBSD-current as though it is just a rather more sexy and desirable version of FreeBSD-stable. This is understandable, given the extremely long gestation period of 3.0-RELEASE. But it is also completely at odds with the intended purpose of the -current branch. The handbook delimits just two categories of people who were intended to *run* FreeBSD-current: o FreeBSD developers o FreeBSD testers These developers and testers are folks who, in a commercial enterprise, would actually have to be *paid* to work on an in-house, alpha-quality version of the product. The current branch was intended to be treated somewhat like a "restricted area", on the same basis that a factory floor is a restricted area. Because hard, and sometimes dangerous, work is going on there, and bystanders are likely to get their fingers chopped off if they lose concentration. FreeBSD-current was never meant to be "comfortable", it was meant to be "endured" by developers/testers as a necessary part of advancing FreeBSD. Making -current more accessible and user-friendly to folks who are not actively engaged in development or testing is likely to be ultimately counter-productive. And it has the potential to severely limit what can be done by developers, if false expectations (that FreeBSD-current is really just a cool, safe, fun place to be) are encouraged. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message