From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Jan 9 03:26:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9620E7D812 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 03:26:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@heily.com) Received: from mail-oi0-x22b.google.com (mail-oi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83A9A2D83 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 03:26:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@heily.com) Received: by mail-oi0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id e144so4243221oib.4 for ; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 19:26:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heily-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vfSVhlgUrozFB5PHmfKvsLQm9blg79lQuK3buNTuQJA=; b=PfcJk3/aINR2zE29ZTVPAskKxoZKtq0CHPkaYy5Lb+9vY/jXx0U/HMifWWjy4AAVmA X6xydYKNffCXSNzs5esSTAb78Ul49tRyOfyy6xWgR0n5vUWstHdGrl5QQqKu3Wz/UnrL g30vpQjin2sYRq577RmMdcxYSlvKcpqHPwzytn26XkYkH2ZfLrGq7zl1IaUkZb9G6vER 9DDeIWN4GL4XZ2z07N+ZlpBKOltH625aO2rUuVswSa42AVb3y9nxD1nLfPjqhONdXcqy Amf9cpmi24rIXO2Vqk3A2+DjUB3hl7SUhkltq66TgFiOOqGml+dp8x1mudYfZTh55fes DYiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vfSVhlgUrozFB5PHmfKvsLQm9blg79lQuK3buNTuQJA=; b=DCyPlo7walZgYO1RxauEtJB8hZbZqyCh7tgML8O9NWSBdHBH8CJTScxsa0e75adGuM MQLpm4+ZJvL0JWe0sVz8pf1lukJT0/me4OWb3Q9HTqkhlzCJyz2RrdPr5HQr5Bny1RTo iuJnUjdTQa0OpBSJfAeqFHNkuYTLa0c0Hr+ROZQyyY1T85jiVGJQIUMf6WRguOXh9sNZ 86DCEAtYxfprMujOrqAlSu8ebVowewP13xowqZkGSXjbnxr/XSmJExVCueNALTwUb3Q0 ALJwhu1FA+jyCQX8klO2I29+n2LQ7WFuizJ+ga027/uteQ1d5pLk8zpWI9BJBxtjwYqO 4t0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJyO5yyQb8LFYyTiY50GKZ+pjwvQWQtEmqynVmIvt2+POjvOQKa AIgnePet0OOWVFFMCNiq+nQBY9Wn6sBcN+1yUuSArw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotp4aLB0pQQ5PLGhMNq/AS00BHD0IYbZYiZUmDM1wU/9QJrLIrJaHurfIH3XsVu0r4fB72qm9R6Mxs/QfY/HOA= X-Received: by 10.202.199.149 with SMTP id x143mr8024702oif.216.1515468375485; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 19:26:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.15.1 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 19:26:14 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [71.70.173.127] In-Reply-To: <201801081526.w08FQhA8022158@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <201801081526.w08FQhA8022158@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Mark Heily Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 22:26:14 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Make periodic's output log to files if sendmail is disabled on install To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: mykel@mware.ca, freebsd-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 03:26:16 -0000 On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > 1) if sendmail is disabled during installation, have periodic's output > > logged to files (per example in > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?periodic(8) ) > > I would not make this option dependent on sendmail, it should just > be a stand alone set of options > "Do you want logs" > #Completely turn off periodic in crontab > "Do you want logs mailed or stored in files" > #dtrt > > > 2) make this the default anyway (logging to files), arguably the vast > > majority of systems' reporting is ignored :) > > At least now it could be logrotated out! > > You can argue that when you provide a statistical data set, > until then this is speculation at best and should not be used > in an argument for or against a change like this. > > If I do nothing different in the installer please make sure > the systems end up as they have been configured for a very > long time to minimize POLA. And to minimize any changes to > all the post install configuration that people have been > doing up until now. > > Do you have "statistical data" to back up your claim that the the current installer settings cause the least amount of astonishment to users? Why should your speculation about POLA be given special treatment, while other people's speculation requires hard evidence? > Changing how things work out of the box undoes or adds to > changes people already have in place, and for larger instances, > probably have fully automated. > > I'm in favor of the suggestion of leaving the periodic cronjobs turned off by default in the next release. Any existing automation is likely geared towards turning those jobs off, and it would be trivial to turn them back on again. As long as user-visible changes are documented in the release notes, and users have an easy way to override the default, I am all for providing a cleaner and simpler out of box experience.