From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 23:29:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69A13F1116 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BstTh5Fktz3XsC; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id J3LBkVuerTWWpJ3LCk6TmZ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:29:27 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=EcV2/NqC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f63f157 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=re3MI-Lb873Kp2c5MdQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 482EE28E; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HNTNrH056088; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009172329.08HNTNrH056088@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Ian Lepore cc: John-Mark Gurney , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to Ian Lepore message dated "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:53:38 -0600." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:23 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfKiRQQdq1Iyza2i0f+AR9CYMnUZw91ehqxYTZgATUwIbgayAK18SYCOSi2Ul6SXwm7zpSATJ3VVLxJUvZKqU+lmOnbrToxoJDeQjwyLvhN1B9wK4EFKm cqWc9R/oKZh+I69q/tDOp+SpxPVXba07M+eta9kOivEnMSuRrfP7rw+zb1kKg5BuNOLXJlFOYPSPxYOpZbhy82PaFj2aZ3s7s4P7sp5gm0O2Lxp78rJ9qv/k eci3Fu/CJBt9zAzwyqOAYUqjMCvwMqVk14gQGBqbDMc= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BstTh5Fktz3XsC X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.02 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[70.67.125.17:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.022]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.01)[-0.007]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.70)[0.702]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.134.12:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:29 -0000 In message <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org>, Ian Le pore writes: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 12:49 -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: > > > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as > > > > > well. > > > > > People > > > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to > > > > download > > > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for > > > > this. > > > > > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and > > > we > > > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > > > > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > > > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what > > > the > > > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't > > > be > > > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > > > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are > > > not > > > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > > > threats. > > > > And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique > > case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the > > security improvements for the majority of people... > > > > I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because > > of this attitude... > > > > Good. Because what you call "improvements" I would probably call > "Imposing policy rather than providing tools." We as developers, here, on the job, or elsewhere, apply policy all the time when we make decisions regarding the software we write/maintain. When you think of it, I don't have the time for _____ is also a policy decision. My former manager's 80/20 rule, as much as I didn't like it at the time (but now see the wisdom), was also a policy decision. A business decision. > > I've don't complain about making defaults the safest choices available. > I complain about removing options completely because they're unsafe in > some circumstances according to some people. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.