From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 26 18:49:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497D6106566B for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (c00l3r.networx.ch [62.48.2.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33C813C45B for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:49:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 62994 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2008 17:37:36 -0000 Received: from dotat.atdotat.at (HELO [62.48.0.47]) ([62.48.0.47]) (envelope-sender ) by c00l3r.networx.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Feb 2008 17:37:36 -0000 Message-ID: <47C458E9.5090400@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:22:33 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8b) Gecko/20050217 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brooks Davis References: <47C39948.3080907@elischer.org> <20080226051346.GA65258@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20080226051346.GA65258@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Marko Zec , Marko Zec , Marko Zec , Julian Elischer , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: warning of pending commit attempt. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:49:15 -0000 Brooks Davis wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 08:44:56PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > >>At some stage in the next few weeks I will be trying to commit >>Marco Zec's vimage code to -current. (only 'trying' not >>for technical reasons, but political). ... >>Why now? >> The code is in a shape where teh compiled out version of hte system is >>stable. In the compiled in version, it is functional >>enough to provide nearly all of what people want. It needs people with >>other interests to adapt it to their purposes and use it so that it can >>become a solid product for future releases. > > The website has a snapshot with a date over a month old and many > comments about unstable interfaces. I've seen zero reports of > substantial testing... What about locking and SMP scalability? Any new choke points? Having a patch set to glance over would be helpful as well. >>Solaris and Linux have seen what BSD can do with jails and have upped >>the ante. it's time for FreeBSD to tak our jails to teh next logical >>step. >> >>As it will be committed it does have some missing parts to the jigsaw, but >>it is complete enough that a system compiled in this manner can >>be fully functional and fully backwards compatible. >> >>Basically no userland changes need be made to get the full effect. >> >>I expect the usual nay-sayers no matter what is proposed, but >>I hope we can have a decent discussion about this.. > > From purely procedural perspective, the "next few weeks" seems rushed and > poorly motivated. We're still finding and fixing bugs from the last > major round of network changes. We should at least get the first batch > of 7.0 errata out the door before making changes that will certain make > merging non-trivial network stack changes more difficult. We also need > credible, qualitative reports verifying that it works and what it's > impacts are. Seconded. Waiting until 7.0 has left the barn and got some exposure would be preferrable. > Don't get me wrong. I think this is interesting work and that it could > be a major asset to FreeBSD. I also recognize that it should go in > in the next 6-9 months (12 at the outside) if it's not going to cause > problems with 8.0. I simply don't see any valid motivation for doing it > with undue haste. We also need detailed briefing on how to work with virtualization. What have we to be careful about? How are kld's and network drivers affected? New network related kernel structures? And so on. -- Andre