From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 17 18:03:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EBB2C329B for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:03:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic307-9.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic307-9.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493kTt6QYcz4MVM for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:03:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: zlrGiJMVM1lEELDBcdNp0ab3GQQlbn_mtTlK7hBcUG5CM7GWHXsFDG7NxmcwgMF DyYULwJMCYN5I6Qgci.hIQSUjHi6y6427.KZ.NqI5z76UbuUuQVi1j1coYD4.ESQY8JnwUble0yB Q0kqBD4gelpX3l1rUaJkz4wo9P5SmYazVkyBF.i_AYPEIWsiWmGdmsMNR3PJfpL_Mhq.DQhwI44Z 0f7ZMhI6zkjJWCGn7mfAmDdInXzu.O_GXiHrwBj2bgTEFvAy_rVGxnqmjlsQB_WdXpvoqOcpM7bl 5PZcshCpeQevsGxCdVd8x381u6rB7.B5ItasrfgvQwRHZuWAHRLpVdUH2zgZqIuX17.sDjTD1oKi Y7YL5DzVf94gOuLzq_ie2Vf5Ikpoppw3zX4mQXJWf5qshu_Sti3oP_qNLpgmgF4EQbjL7UbbqZzy b8HAkIid9M2vOIcc0nMOwsfvustVMuWjT6vk3p68zRbFCKseL2IRm.LzerWixnomJ7M9GhXZoVm9 WduzWJd9qnKjvzedMe8vW12Z.CG0cyqt_EubEmdG1FfwuT3sk8tzn1ja8Yi93Au5s6.Dxu72kZtb XbC9veVdZkZGq_oNbtVE8U30Hu5Jsin.VW3xYa3H2ttQDzvCw.Yq.sgXneY5NB.x_OUFod3UXQmW 2rBrzdK5ETrEt.xWWKzjjB.m1Q4C6tGOKlcq3ImoN_TtWggsTdwCJxeW4x0pDZvDklxjWKfx4IW. mFI.HWmxDiWF6jhwCRMkK6wqY0NQPV7XXKndlKNUiGPVhFm616NsgqEU9WYHoc8z8BGhWMlK.2D2 mp4SfAFQQNfBMwlrsDIfp2FtQoy4yhng89FhAktefQlkqml6KO.UnYfOHuPF8inj4V4oAgM8x_v5 9HXvnLCRC.SKqcVyA5ddxTtvvT617gkvlYPSZSylXemZuI4HjiqWgJnVRGlEiqLXwhS_yvysAdCL m9SiA93mvBUTaXvDQi0mz4O9NhyTbRgT7P8eP1B04tmXNJ11WTxd6abeH0lzmdiXNok46Ggg6EWI kQVLkr7SlJ1jgSRFQq7qVPAOuNR2qUOsW_MN0_G3ZPpN5guvEG6u3BrXmzdE1ssTTxtMS8Kn.nFq qh7XAgg4Z9yrDlol6B2TX49X43XFGeAP12mWZYC6kAEL9ovLk4Giihqh3HobMQax0cF.ORCcpZ7X yKHaC3cMWJKh.257yH01CsSNga3W_nz22J34q2SB.qclHEoty4CorYEV7ZvZTkZCboTAucULdCcd H6ynVp9menY4FDIjBJQf.kcsrPKfSOQD5s.I.5RDODrxlTVvSoWw4EVhThBlx7LBUt6pF3uWO_6Y _pMsVMjGsk09KpjzMh1_y3mQ.PdwUs4oWT2EIcxFyiska2XRSxl0- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:03:12 +0000 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:02:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Ottavio Caruso , Aryeh Friedman Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Message-ID: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15651 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:75.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/75.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 493kTt6QYcz4MVM X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.62 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[15]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.813,0]; MANY_INVISIBLE_PARTS(1.00)[10]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.81)[0.805,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[32.190.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.75), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.16), asn: 36646(0.93), country: US(-0.05)]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[32.190.163.66.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:03:15 -0000 I'm a system architect/Sr System Administrator, comp sci degree, 30 years = experience, etc. I have to make a living.=C2=A0 I do so with RH/CentOS etc. Honestly, if people truly understood the difference between BSD and Linux (= full OS vs kernel) and all the nuances as well as the philosophy, I truly b= elieve that there would be a large migration to FreeBSD.=C2=A0 Most of the = largest and most successful companies in their respective fields use it.=C2= =A0 (Apple, Netflix, NetApp, etc) Heck, even Linus said if it wasn't for the lawsuit between BSD and AT&T in = the early '90s, he would not have found it necessary to create Linux (based= on source code COPIED from a Minix book) circa 1994.=C2=A0 (BSD traces bac= k to 20 years earlier - dinosaur age in technology of 1974) When I look at what has been done in the Linux world in the last five years= .... (microprocesses, kubernetes/containers, etc) it is a REINVENTION of th= ings that existed back in mid-90s (!!!) with FreeBSD jails and Solaris zone= s. Yes, the Linux community re-invents things... A LOT.=C2=A0 When they don't = re-invent and try something new (like systemd), it's nothing short of a mes= s.=C2=A0 It seems more of implementing things of 'I have this cool new idea= .=C2=A0 Let's implement it' versus BSD approach of starting with 'Should we= implement it?'=C2=A0 When there's a new release of the Linux kernel it's, = typically, a mess.=C2=A0 It goes through a zillion patches in 6 months main= ly about security and various holes.=C2=A0 It's really scary how much it mi= mics a Windows release. Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed repor= ts |=20 |=20 |=20 | | | | | |=20 | |=20 Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re... Freebsd Freebsd security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, vul= nerability statistics and list of ver... | | | Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re= ports |=20 |=20 |=20 | | | | | |=20 | |=20 Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed... Linux Linux Kernel security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, = vulnerability statistics and list of ... | | | Now, the two links above are just about the SECURITY vulnerabilities introd= uced annually by the COMPLETE OS known as FreeBSD (including it's kernel an= d userland) versus the KERNEL of Linux (this does NOT include the GNU userl= and which is a SEPARATE list of vulnerabilities - a complete GNU/Linux syst= em is substantially higher) More comparison? Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities |=20 |=20 |=20 | | | | | |=20 | |=20 Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities Microsoft: List of all products, security vulnerabilities of products, cvss= score reports, detailed graphical re... | | | Also, when viewing the CVE details site, please remember that OSX is NOT Fr= eeBSD.=C2=A0 When you're looking at OSX, you are also looking at a hybrid k= ernel, mostly FreeBSD userland and... their GUI <-- a lot of the vulnerabil= ities are found here. FreeBSD?=C2=A0 Heck, I'll take an x.0-RELEASE and put it in production with= out questioning whether it works or not.=C2=A0 I wait at least 6 months bef= ore rolling out a new Linux kernel/GNU OS. Paul On Friday, April 17, 2020, 1:04:21 PM EDT, Aryeh Friedman wrote: =20 =20 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > > > > Before getting into detail in the inline comments it is important to no= te > > there is small but very important philosophical difference in the desig= n > of > > FreeBSD and Linux.=C2=A0 FreeBSD follows the core concept of the Hippoc= ratic > > Oath: "Do no harm" (aka "if it is not broken don't fix it!") and Linsuc= ks > > follows the completely idiotic Facebook mantra of: "Iterate fast and > break > > things" (aka Only an idiot would use it in a life critical application.= ) > > Prepubescent fanboi language that doesn't add much to a technical topic. > Your response shows you completely misread the intent and meaning of my comments.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also insulting people is likely even less productive= then me quoting some well known cliches. > Translated back into more coherent English, I pretty much like the > 1990's "release often, release early" philosophy, which FreeBSD seems > to have adopted with its recent policy of offering more frequent > releases. > I am all in favor of frequent releases as long they are not broken ones (the base system does well here the ports collection not so well).=C2=A0 I = do daily updates of my installed ports and usually do at least a test install of the first -BETA of every new version (unless it fundamentally breaks something I even switch over to it for my desktop, but wait for -RELEASE before doing it on production servers). Now that being said as I said in the message that you are replying to (and so kindly took out of context) due to my application for production servers the worst possible thing that an OS can do is something that is potentially harmful and FreeBSD is one the best behaved in this regard where is linsucks is by far the worst offender in this area. > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 17 18:06:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FF32C3423 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493kYc4Lhlz4MjJ for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 6xUwy4oVM1ny2kOb55YLC4Hwpq0qc_0wPRBMoG3Nh18UzdUbVg4LyY3MhgD7lwM BabgPJN4xTQspYmNo2mHfPZN4x9i1saVOzULb19hpav233o6Ur9wzvEgArOXgq949w6a5B71NDjJ g4vZiPinit7GFjToBlfT62y3ruXEezeuJrdD.eVwa8iun_IIChSs1EZ5VMu7uRzZ6kDWmit1SLmY 8FQQinapOGITk64b2u9lLJxbkzvajtI6hMSN9GrT_I.po_ZdCYVZiQ3xloizQhXX4vva6VX.fGai E2mptAq0WdtBk4PyQtmXnsFR_foIoDVJ8fph9dFy8lYKSZDMFteHcZ2ev8BYbSnVYX8hI0Hd47L4 buFEwlIK4UjAybOaM0YbUs1M5zfssI7jH9Yx5QXzf.nZdOOyPNrrINE2M322rs080fYr.90lXgrj SDjqPlDdI937bUK2SSStlGfKafYlhK_K5Q8MnptwPP.kSvZvPRpy5gIw6Inxs5MC15bnRSYh47Yc bpEbhrAZcoRmmho8lldirAQOYxuGkYI3eG18RIMIDZc_whmMjs0aRt8psNqWC7PMR1rGBIJnv2i. hdI4ACl5CEcFYDt0QfCurS7u5O6.hL3D_5rInmm5l8TgKolLkrOhkLE.j9cJ9v9XjuTftFYfe6JV CFCyED7JU_Ectn3_Mq.DhXovMgobAezIJiUFanud.ZUNbUA5WCkLuCto._MHKlnxANO6WYDaoxh6 8MN.vFzaiBOyWsH6xTsEa99ceB8q9ubwTbo8x9RMZXv1nbGW6sy.sf76CdPhHI_.Oh_qF5xC2Cp0 t4BqBD4_7ksP2cPzpSNBE2bnO8DTdiWfooUugPgc3295sWXpoFHt96QRliyeblB_6Q2BB84LD0KS yhDUbULGKkIQe.1HilIgrXEFgeZzSKKsGV_aYzc9gHINpfkyKCaA_KBBUAu7OZAMlWY.STervIMC .6P0Q1yTIgmQldTbXDD8BOl8cJcMHdzVyoMZJXT0zyjSfycwBr9eXHlUchTAdf0n6Hr5FK7aC6wx z7Lm7AY5.nK8ns19zJ9cPvUkPWI5QddLnjoJrxl54XrS3ixklQYvvDyzgeB5OxenMMH5qTiQFgrB Y2s8MXqiuMPp5TabRsNOtNIO6SuLofdgtwLzPXci8PA5A5._u5w9dkV8NMm1.HVF1KqORV3vSPSv 3zZKRf.G_tcvYRZ3UPGuF1aoNc2i.5cshz7ZoSA6EN9P.PEE8a_E7dEdy37y_6W4YEyDhFBjNHmM 0aXQ5hWb8U0VJQQrIWd9EjxZE9y5Y8mWAqpseR659qSsl9udAzupi_sOgL.cUdPVbeksdeXSSpoK DA_G_dVjtEIxGI0M5BgRUNKY92oFvKhYmQYYiItGf83QjRw6oOyTh_ZJj6rV3sw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:27 +0000 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Ottavio Caruso , Aryeh Friedman Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Message-ID: <800698741.2297108.1587146786489@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15651 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:75.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/75.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 493kYc4Lhlz4MjJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.91 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.928,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.185.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.69), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.16), asn: 36646(0.93), country: US(-0.05)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[147.185.163.66.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:29 -0000 *sigh*.... looks like the links to=C2=A0www dot cvedetails dot com got rem= oved...=20 Paul On Friday, April 17, 2020, 2:03:23 PM EDT, Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-q= uestions wrote: =20 =20 I'm a system architect/Sr System Administrator, comp sci degree, 30 years= experience, etc. I have to make a living.=C2=A0 I do so with RH/CentOS etc. Honestly, if people truly understood the difference between BSD and Linux (= full OS vs kernel) and all the nuances as well as the philosophy, I truly b= elieve that there would be a large migration to FreeBSD.=C2=A0 Most of the = largest and most successful companies in their respective fields use it.=C2= =A0 (Apple, Netflix, NetApp, etc) Heck, even Linus said if it wasn't for the lawsuit between BSD and AT&T in = the early '90s, he would not have found it necessary to create Linux (based= on source code COPIED from a Minix book) circa 1994.=C2=A0 (BSD traces bac= k to 20 years earlier - dinosaur age in technology of 1974) When I look at what has been done in the Linux world in the last five years= .... (microprocesses, kubernetes/containers, etc) it is a REINVENTION of th= ings that existed back in mid-90s (!!!) with FreeBSD jails and Solaris zone= s. Yes, the Linux community re-invents things... A LOT.=C2=A0 When they don't = re-invent and try something new (like systemd), it's nothing short of a mes= s.=C2=A0 It seems more of implementing things of 'I have this cool new idea= .=C2=A0 Let's implement it' versus BSD approach of starting with 'Should we= implement it?'=C2=A0 When there's a new release of the Linux kernel it's, = typically, a mess.=C2=A0 It goes through a zillion patches in 6 months main= ly about security and various holes.=C2=A0 It's really scary how much it mi= mics a Windows release. Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed repor= ts |=20 |=20 |=20 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | | | |=20 |=C2=A0 |=20 Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re... Freebsd Freebsd security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, vul= nerability statistics and list of ver... | | | Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re= ports |=20 |=20 |=20 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | | | |=20 |=C2=A0 |=20 Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed... Linux Linux Kernel security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, = vulnerability statistics and list of ... | | | Now, the two links above are just about the SECURITY vulnerabilities introd= uced annually by the COMPLETE OS known as FreeBSD (including it's kernel an= d userland) versus the KERNEL of Linux (this does NOT include the GNU userl= and which is a SEPARATE list of vulnerabilities - a complete GNU/Linux syst= em is substantially higher) More comparison? Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities |=20 |=20 |=20 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | | | |=20 |=C2=A0 |=20 Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities Microsoft: List of all products, security vulnerabilities of products, cvss= score reports, detailed graphical re... | | | Also, when viewing the CVE details site, please remember that OSX is NOT Fr= eeBSD.=C2=A0 When you're looking at OSX, you are also looking at a hybrid k= ernel, mostly FreeBSD userland and... their GUI <-- a lot of the vulnerabil= ities are found here. FreeBSD?=C2=A0 Heck, I'll take an x.0-RELEASE and put it in production with= out questioning whether it works or not.=C2=A0 I wait at least 6 months bef= ore rolling out a new Linux kernel/GNU OS. Paul =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Friday, April 17, 2020, 1:04:21 PM EDT, Aryeh Friedman wrote:=C2=A0=20 =20 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > > > > Before getting into detail in the inline comments it is important to no= te > > there is small but very important philosophical difference in the desig= n > of > > FreeBSD and Linux.=C2=A0 FreeBSD follows the core concept of the Hippoc= ratic > > Oath: "Do no harm" (aka "if it is not broken don't fix it!") and Linsuc= ks > > follows the completely idiotic Facebook mantra of: "Iterate fast and > break > > things" (aka Only an idiot would use it in a life critical application.= ) > > Prepubescent fanboi language that doesn't add much to a technical topic. > Your response shows you completely misread the intent and meaning of my comments.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also insulting people is likely even less productive= then me quoting some well known cliches. > Translated back into more coherent English, I pretty much like the > 1990's "release often, release early" philosophy, which FreeBSD seems > to have adopted with its recent policy of offering more frequent > releases. > I am all in favor of frequent releases as long they are not broken ones (the base system does well here the ports collection not so well).=C2=A0 I = do daily updates of my installed ports and usually do at least a test install of the first -BETA of every new version (unless it fundamentally breaks something I even switch over to it for my desktop, but wait for -RELEASE before doing it on production servers). Now that being said as I said in the message that you are replying to (and so kindly took out of context) due to my application for production servers the worst possible thing that an OS can do is something that is potentially harmful and FreeBSD is one the best behaved in this regard where is linsucks is by far the worst offender in this area. > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =C2=A0=20 _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 17 18:14:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AEC62C3B98 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493kkQ4JY2z4Nh0 for ; 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Fri, 17 Apr 2020 11:14:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> In-Reply-To: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> From: Michael Sierchio Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 11:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 493kkQ4JY2z4Nh0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=tTJbq+Ds; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kudzu@tenebras.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::833) smtp.mailfrom=kudzu@tenebras.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.00)[ip: (-9.19), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:14:07 -0000 https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:16 AM kindu smith wrote: > Hello, I am a user who likes UNIX-like systems. I have some experience > using GNU / Linux and some experience using freebsd. I like the > architecture of UNIX-like systems, but I am not proficient, so I just > want to mention some improvements. The idea of freebsd experience, > what is unscientific, welcome to advise. > > First of all, freebsd's architecture is very good, no need to invent > the wheel, but freebsd's installation interface and startup interface > are too old. It is time to make some changes. I think the freebsd with > microkernel will be more stable. The / boot / kernel directory is very > suitable for writing a small kernel, such as named core, and then > design some modules around and package it in this directory. Then, > under / boot, create some new directories such as EFI, API, ABI, model, > etc. to do EFI boot and application program interface, and user space > modules. I think this will be a perfect design. As for the design > pattern of the microkernel, you can refer to haiku (a clone of beos). > In addition, you need to redesign the installation interface and a > complete desktop environment, because this is very important for > novices. I don't think Gnome / kde / xfce or the like is used anymore. > It is designed for Linux, and the systemd it uses is not supported by > Freebsd. > > Freebsd should design a gorgeous interface comparable to macos, in > addition to a set of init programs comparable to systemd. Therefore, > both the bootloader and init programs need to be redesigned. For > example, when Linux starts, it displays ok and colored driver loading > reminders. Freebsd can learn from it. I think that the Linux startup > program is not perfect. It is still in the startup mode similar to the > console. The more modern startup program should be a perfect > combination of graphical and startup information. The driver is a flaw > of freebsd. Due to the limited number of developers, a large number of > other systems are required, such as copying from linux. so copy it from > linux. The GPL agreement does not affect the use of freebsd code. Only > in this way can freebsd and linux form a differentiated competition, > can freebsd survive the huge wave of linux. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is = no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata