From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jul 9 12:40:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from astart2.astart.com (astart2.astart.com [206.71.174.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4F437BFAA; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from papowell@astart.com) Received: from h4.private (papowell@h4.private [10.0.0.4]) by astart2.astart.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00850; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from papowell@localhost) by h4.private (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21388; Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: papowell@astart.com Message-Id: <200007091939.MAA21388@h4.private> To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@picnic.mat.net Subject: Re: Bringing LPRng into FreeBSD? - License Issues Cc: andrews@technologist.com, arch@FreeBSD.ORG, drosih@rpi.edu, imp@village.org, nik@FreeBSD.ORG, papowell@astart.com, sheldonh@uunet.co.za, will@almanac.yi.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From chuckr@picnic.mat.net Sun Jul 9 11:47:13 2000 > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:46:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: Chuck Robey > To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami > cc: papowell@astart.com, andrews@technologist.com, arch@FreeBSD.ORG, > drosih@rpi.edu, imp@village.org, nik@FreeBSD.ORG, sheldonh@uunet.co.za, > will@almanac.yi.org > Subject: Re: Bringing LPRng into FreeBSD? - License Issues > > > I think Chuck just got confused. :) He probably thought you wanted > > lpr and lpd and whatnot to print the copyright message every time it > > starts up. (Which is, of course, a bit too much.) > > Yeah, I was wrong, I thought it went off on every startup, not on the -V > startup. > > I spent so much time getting my printer setup right (the last time, 3 > months ago, when I bought a new printer) that I wouldn't change print > setups now unless put under extreme duress. I didn't test the thing, else > I would have seen it didn't print the banner every time. > > I should have reread it. > This is THE major reason WHY I want to clean up printing, to get it set up in a SANE and uniform manner across ALL platforms. Yes. Even Microsoft... Now put down the tar and feathers and pay some attention :-) Everybody spends too much time setting up and making printing work. Each little UNIX/Linux/Solaris/HP/... empire has its own little printing ghetto, where you have to spend an enormous effort learning the majic incantations. And there are damn few printing wizards on call. And once you get printing set up you NEVER EVER want to do it again. So even it if is almost broken, until it gets to a crisis you won't touch it. And when you are in crisis mode you don't want to spend time, effort and energy to learn how to set up a new and different printing system. This, in the immortal words of Randolf ("My Favorite Felon") Schwartz, "Sucks big time." My current project is to try to civilize this for the UNIX world. This is being done by putting the following stuff together: a) creating AND PUBLISHING an open source print system that will meet or exceed the capabilities of any commercial system so that there will be NO NEED for printing ghettos. This is currently funded by selling support for LPRng. b) having a text, curses, or X based system that will generate a printer printcap entry and update the printcap with it. This is proving to be a little harder than I thought it would. The back end is trivial - you can set up a database of all the printers and driver stuff, but the front end requires Novice User proofing... Much harder than Idiot Proofing, as Novice Users will try things not even Idiots would do :-). I am trying to get people to work on this, but most people who start on it soon lose interest as it is NOT a glamorous, interesting, or 'neat' thing to do. c) Documentation. There are several classes of this. a) Single printer on your single system. Examples: Linux Printing HOWTO, RedHat 'Printing Answers' (Don't sneer at these - they are VERY helpful). FreeBSD HandBook chapter on Printing. b) Tutorial on the Tough Stuff - LPRng HOWTO, Part 1 c) Reference on the Tough Stuff - LPRng HOWTO, Part 2 d) Database of Printer Information This is a real problem - it is a manpower issue in getting the data made available. Patrick Powell Astart Technologies, papowell@astart.com 9475 Chesapeake Drive, Suite D, Network and System San Diego, CA 92123 Consulting 858-874-6543 FAX 858-279-8424 LPRng - Print Spooler (http://www.astart.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message