From owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Tue Jun 28 15:23:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC989B85AED; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "puchar.net", Issuer "puchar.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B02B2EE0; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:23:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPS id u5SFNTB1024866 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:23:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from laptop.wojtek.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by laptop.wojtek.intra (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id u5SFNRX6008891; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:23:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by laptop.wojtek.intra (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id u5SFNM4q008888; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:23:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) X-Authentication-Warning: laptop.wojtek.intra: wojtek owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:23:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar X-X-Sender: wojtek@laptop.wojtek.intra To: Chris Watson cc: Zaphod Beeblebrox , freebsd-fs , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: The small installations network filesystem and users. In-Reply-To: <9BB7E8B3-EC0E-457E-B2B2-FB80B1CF02B0@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <9BB7E8B3-EC0E-457E-B2B2-FB80B1CF02B0@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (puchar.net [10.0.1.1]); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:23:30 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:23:33 -0000 On Mon, 20 Jun 2016, Chris Watson wrote: > I'm glad you brought this up. I wanted to but I've heard it before on the lists and realize that there is this disconnect between the developers doing the actual work to implement these things and the end users. > > I have always been very grateful to all the developers who over the years, and I've been a FreeBSD consumer since the late 90s? And attended my first usenix/freenix conf in Monterrey in 2001?, have done some really hard work on many many things in FreeBSD. For zero pay. But the thing that has always bothered me about a lot of it is, it's just to complex to use for most end users. Not all. But people want to get work done. Sifting through .conf files, googling howtos, spending more time configuring it than installing it has always been an issue. Developers in general do not think like an end user. And this leads to non developers just going "screw it I'll just get it running on Linux with my GUI installer." Which is why FreeNas is so popular. It's taken a lot, not all, but a lot of the pain and time consuming nature of learning all the ins and outs of a NAS appliance from the equation. FreeBSD have very well done man pages. I simply read them.