From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 8 10:57:20 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606E6E5A; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 10:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ia0-x236.google.com (mail-ia0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::236]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8C1297; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 10:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ia0-f182.google.com with SMTP id u20so441242iag.13 for ; Mon, 08 Apr 2013 03:57:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6B+r4nK9ZmSJ5dZPjIlswiKeAM77ILMOpYjVp9DoDU8=; b=S0ybSJxrun59pLxuF/sEMGe4q5en/nOfK/4vzj4XcW0cYR/0aAfwCC6pnhkhMNPeqt CSeX01QNIdA/ApKMKsVVVNU7sGvojOVkqQVQN5QYOT0+ZeyJBxXflkzpWeLEC9oX/2xI c3P26T5x66GEEvAkou7VAf0wwrIzpidf4fs2Si/HT/eykwdUXXMvG+Qm54Mki9nSwSnY 394uoH7tU4JG5VjN1Tri68Uh1BMJj1Hjh2RvE+9n+VsEfsiDN3bG4Jfhq5MAqyLb9bzf UA5kg3EFEyzMLmKdWGgtgKsG+FfNRum4rK3l6ZQWRIJsDtjP8ZMQhzqiaQ12dmtZ5ooR aA/g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.152.169 with SMTP id uz9mr6813745igb.15.1365418639214; Mon, 08 Apr 2013 03:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.58.52 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 03:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.58.52 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 03:57:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51622F44.3050604@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:57:18 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Growing list of required(ish) ports From: Chris Rees To: Robert Simmons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Kevin Oberman , Kimmo Paasiala , freebsd-ports , Bryan Drewery X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 10:57:20 -0000 On 8 Apr 2013 08:55, "Robert Simmons" wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kimmo Paasiala wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Robert Simmons > >> wrote: > >> > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryan Drewery > >> > wrote: > >> >> On 4/7/2013 8:47 PM, Robert Simmons wrote: > >> >>> Are there plans to get the following ports moved into HEAD? > >> >>> > >> >>> 1) ports-mgmt/pkg > >> >>> > >> >>> 2) ports-mgmt/dialog4ports > >> >>> > >> >>> 3) ports-mgmt/portaudit > >> >>> > >> >>> 4) ports-mgmt/portmaster > >> >>> > >> >>> It seems to me like these belong in the base system. > >> >> > >> >> On the contrary, the idea is that more and more should come *out of > >> >> base* and into ports. Base is very static and stuck in time. By moving > >> >> these things into ports, you are able to get updates much simpler. No > >> >> need for an errata or security advisory or release. Just updating with > >> >> portmaster/pkg upgrade. > >> > > >> > I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps there needs to be > >> > movement in both directions. > >> > > >> > I may be way off the mark here, but I'd love to spark a discussion > >> > about this. I think that in general things that are directly FreeBSD > >> > projects belong in base. Examples would be pkgng, and making > >> > dialog4ports a switch in dialog(1). Essentially, code that does not > >> > have an upstream should be in base. > >> > > >> > On the other hand, there are a number of things that I think should be > >> > pulled out of base. Some already have ports, and others would need > >> > ports created. Examples of things to pull out of base are OpenSSL, > >> > Heimdal, OpenSSH, PF, ntpd, ipfilter, bind, sendmail, and others. > >> > Code that is typically way behind the upstream project basically. > >> > > >> >> > >> >> portaudit is not needed with pkg, just use 'pkg audit'. > >> > > >> > I had missed that. Thanks! > >> > > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> Also, is there a reason why dialog4ports's functionality wasn't added > >> >>> to dialog(1) as a switch? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Regards, > >> >> Bryan Drewery > >> >> bdrewery@freenode/EFNet > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > >> I think Bryan already explained the reasons why pkg should not be in > >> base, it's an external tool that is not strictly required to get a bare > >> > >> bones FreeBSD system up and running. Including it in base you create > >> yet another maintainance burden and would slow down the development of > >> the ports/packages management tools. > >> > >> -Kimmo > > > > > > What people seem to miss is that putting tools into the base system > > strangles the tools. Look at the difficulty we have seen in updating > > openssl. perl was removed from base for exactly that reason. Once something > > is in base, it usually can only be updated on major releases and even then > > it can be very complicated. That is a problem for any dynamically changing > > tool. > > > > I would love to see BIND removed from base, but most of the things you > > listed really are hard to remove. I know that I don't want to try bringing > > up a new install of FreeBSD on a remote system without OpenSSH and that > > OpenSSH is the only one that doesn't follow the same pattern. It > seems that the port of it has been abandoned going on 2 years. It is > lagging far far behind 9-stable which looks like DES bumped to 6.1 and > HEAD has been bumped to 6.2p1. You need to get the idea out of your head that !base == "inferior in some way". Ports are an integral part of the OS, and base should be minimal. Chris