From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 09:38:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1164D16A420 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF3013C46B for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so476188pyb.3 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:38:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/4bGGnYL9DLi3QDJ2g17haqsD7u6sPpBzpV0LVsk9Tk=; b=LhDswQd2nHgmQSCI/Kh3GOqKNVwN+75hmsL7WI4BpQ6e4psdW3JbbJdIr/00QoBX6867rQRDBdr5NQqFMnwk7kpvL2cqZSCudHAaMevxqMyXjnvkWpGx1kyd0SztLyi1w/A01Ixxk/64etGteqVYsKBxdqQh11VrBzjq6RVc0yk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=k3bKcGylc2xs2Lz/qMmlcmegngcf+EWEAqKy6G/jm63hM3fecWHQ+ewCwX0kPdNWL/Wwxbg55KXY8e58JWMWUpAG7Xt7VTNRbGC9uIFvIK4RbtPM7b61ut5qt3mCmI4ijdjz3XfNh1XytEXiZPxZ1qxtx92x++424spQwQiNZ8g= Received: by 10.65.138.4 with SMTP id q4mr1094775qbn.29.1197452322185; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q19sm76687qbq.2007.12.12.01.38.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:38:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475FAC1F.1010401@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:38:39 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ade Lovett References: <475F7390.9090509@gmail.com> <1022BEDA-8641-4686-AB1A-3FE2D688F47F@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <1022BEDA-8641-4686-AB1A-3FE2D688F47F@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: results of ports re-engineering survey X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:38:44 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ade Lovett wrote: > [admin note: cut down on ridiculous crossposting] > > On Dec 11, 2007, at 21:37 , Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >> Number of responses: roughly 30 > > I just wanted to pick up on this particular number. > > Your survey went to (at least) freebsd-ports, freebsd-current, > freebsd-stable, and freebsd-questions. > > Judging by the original cc's on this message, it would appear that > freebsd-chat and freebsd-hackers were also somehow involved, but > not being subscribed to those lists, I wouldn't know. The orginal survey was posted to all the cc'ed groups and while I didn't track it the responses seemed to be evenly spread across all of them. > > Now, would you care to guess at the number of subscribers on those > lists? Hint, total number is in the thousands. > > Let's, for the sake of argument, call it 3,000. (It is, of course, > much higher) > > But, given this finger-in-the-air readership number, by your own > admission, you have hit exactly 1% of a self-selected group (by > virtue of being subscribed to the lists in question). Let's not > even mention the bazillions (technical term) of FreeBSD consumers > that don't subscribe to any list. > > And from this, you extrapolate new concepts which conveniently > involve others doing the heavy lifting. First of all excuse my language but I have about had it with certain people... where the *HELL* do you get the idea that I am attempting to get other people to do the heavy lifting or have you not learned a single f***'ing thing from the last 30 years of software engineering (i.e. involve the user from the very beginning)... I said right in the f***'ing disclaimer that this is not an attempt to get permission from anyone to do anything and/or any type of project plan as of yet it is *ONLY* an attempt to define the problem so that a good (instead of one I "think" is good) solution can be designed.... and no to what ever fantasy land you live in I am not asking anyone to do anything I am not able and willing to do (I am going to send you a private reply after this to show why for my own personal well being this is a very bad idea) > > I'm done being nice with you. > > Get a grip. Show some code. Heck, show some *prototypes* of code. > But don't hide behind "I don't want my views to color things" when > it is patently obvious to anyone at or above the sentient level of > a single celled organism that you really have absolutely no idea > what you're talking about. I only said that during the survey.... while I still want to gather more data to pin down the exact requirements the general outline of the solutions seems to be shaping up to be: * 100% backwards compatibility * Avoid the issues raised in Miller97 (see previous posts for URL) * Allow for mult-layered dependancies (i.e. base dependancies on port name only not on version number *BUT* allow specific versions to be listed as depends) * Depending on the results of the scope survey extend this to all *BSD's if possible to make it so if anyone ports something then everyone gets it also * A few other minor tweaks that really aren't large enough for a general discussion of the issue Now a question for you if the goal is truly improve the system not what I "think" it means to improve it how the hell am I supposed to do this with out some information gathering. > > The cast-off line at this point would be to point you in the > direction of . Only, in this case, I wouldn't > wish that on my penguin-orientated friends. Hint: I have used linux for perhaps a total of a week and hated every minute of it I would rather use NT, but I have used FreeBSD since '95 and except for jerks like you have really enjoyed it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHX6wezIOMjAek4JIRAoD5AJ9Mzcp5S+JScnqPadNeMPZG1hUPggCcCuaD x1u10QapYNgg5/uOuhyZh5Y= =W0ri -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----