From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Mon Jun 11 17:54:46 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EFE1021CB5; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:54:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from shxd.cx (mail.shxd.cx [64.201.244.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D7EA73961; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:54:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from [74.217.198.10] (port=54024 helo=[10.1.4.66]) by shxd.cx with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1fSI4z-0007OK-LN; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 08:21:33 +0000 From: Devin Teske Message-Id: <344AA709-2DF7-405C-AB4D-4F0978834EA1@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: svn commit: r334939 - head/stand/lua Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 10:54:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Devin Teske , Kyle Evans , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org To: Warner Losh References: <201806110132.w5B1WI5d094546@repo.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Sender: devin@shxd.cx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:54:47 -0000 > On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:07 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Devin Teske > wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Jun 10, 2018, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Evans wrote: > >=20 > > Author: kevans > > Date: Mon Jun 11 01:32:18 2018 > > New Revision: 334939 > > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/334939 = > >=20 > > Log: > > lualoader: Allow brand-*.lua for adding new brands > >=20 > > dteske@, I believe, had originally pointed out that lualoader = failed to > > allow logo-*.lua for new logos to be added. When correcting this = mistake, I > > failed to do the same for brands. > >=20 >=20 > You=E2=80=99re doing an amazing job, Kyle. >=20 > I continually see nothing but genuine effort toward feature parity = which makes me think one day I can pass the reigns. >=20 > Yeah, I will always love Forth. It will always hold a special place in = my heart as that whacky language that simultaneously exudes great power = while also having the image ability to induce vomiting =F0=9F=A4=AE by = the uninitiated. >=20 > However, all that being said, I=E2=80=99d actually like to keep the = Ficl boot stuff as an option through to 14.0 and here is why ... >=20 > Last year we were looking to update from ficl3 to ficl4. That may not = sound too exciting to most folks, but most folks don=E2=80=99t know the = power that ficl4 brings =E2=80=94 like the capability to use full = networking in the loader! Can lua do that? How cool would it be to be = able to communicate with the network from the loader before the kernel = is even loaded into memory? I had a few hair-brained schemes left for = Forth which might be exciting, lol >=20 > The current boot loader can already communicate via NFS or TFTP today. = Adding http would be easy, https would be harder due to crypto being = huge and space being small (though bear ssl might be small enough). >=20 > The last articulated plan in arch@ was that LUA will be default in 12, = and we plan to remove FORTH in 13. Last time I said it there in = February, there was only email agreeing that I could find. This matches = the in-person consensus poll I took at BSDcan as well. I think it would = take a very extraordinary set circumstance and severe problems with LUA = to change those plans. >=20 At BSD Can there was the boot working group where we discussed that an = FCP would be required to decide this. I raised my desires that I would like to be able to flip a knob in 13 = and reboot between Ficl and Lua, back and forth. Give people a choice until we have done a "shake-out" through an entire = major version. An honest-to-goodness procession would be, in my mind: 13: Has both; both are installed. End-user can boot back and forth = between the two Problems that arise in one or the other are non-critical because there = is always an "out" by running the other. 14: Has both but both are not installed. The installer media doesn't = even have it. You can't install the Forth booth stuff unless you twist a = knob in buildworld, optionally going down the path of generating release = media which has the Forth boot stuff. 15. It's removed from tree. You can't build Forth boot. Lua only. No = looking back, no way to build it with Forth, to get Ficl you need to go = to ports. A Ficl with FreeBSD boot words no longer exists and is no = longer maintained. All of bhyve userboot also therefore uses Lua. --=20 Devin=