From nobody Wed Mar 30 06:38:46 2022 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A1B1A37037 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 06:38:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from fedex2.jetcafe.org (fedex2.jetcafe.org [205.147.26.23]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "fedex2.jetcafe.org", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4KSxbd6XCNz4bkq for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2022 06:38:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) X-Envelope-To: questions@freebsd.org X-Rcpt-Mailer: X-Mail-Mailer: local X-SMTP-Proto: ESMTPS Received: from bigus.dream-tech.com (bigus.jetcafe.org [205.147.26.7]) by fedex2.jetcafe.org (8.17.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 22U6ck8T044499 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Mar 2022 23:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 23:38:46 -0700 From: Dave Hayes To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using a FreeBSD desktop was somehting about dog food Message-ID: <20220329233846.22526db6@bigus.dream-tech.com> In-Reply-To: <20220329071850.bca73cd201ca6d5d957c532d@sohara.org> References: <38b7f44-6d54-fec6-c1f0-d3609d301687@safeport.com> <20220327132420.201da20c@archlinux> <20220327212421.adaee52ba708a058e5ef6bd8@sohara.org> <4f3edca7-45ec-b8ae-45dc-9648cced9bfe@kicp.uchicago.edu> <772cf4b0-9e26-3126-ec4b-bd91986883dd@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20220328055449.8a30774a61f3b298e778ae68@sohara.org> <20220328121115.7d368d32@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220328213101.b4e8a7c447964ba025d30883@sohara.org> <20220328173414.0572dd85@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220329071850.bca73cd201ca6d5d957c532d@sohara.org> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1 ( out of 5.1) ALL_TRUSTED,SHORTCIRCUIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin version 3.4.5-jetcafeglobal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4KSxbd6XCNz4bkq X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dave@jetcafe.org designates 205.147.26.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@jetcafe.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.37 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.78)[0.778]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jetcafe.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.92)[0.921]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.972]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7397, ipnet:205.147.0.0/18, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 07:18:50 +0100 "Steve O'Hara-Smith" wrote: > On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 17:34:14 -0700 > Dave Hayes wrote: > > > In other words, I want devs to -want- to help more. :D > > IOW you want things to be different. So I find that a rather sad way of framing what I said and ignoring or glossing over all the other things I tried to explain. I really did not expect anything more, so fair enough. :) I will now choose to receive what you said above as "I don't want to really discuss this anymore" and I will go back into my hole. I'm not mad or anything, just somewhat disappointed. There's still two points that I feel the need to make. > I've explained why things are > as they are and that what we have is the result of people doing what they > want to do and that if you want more done then the onus is on *you* to help > the project do it. ...but it's not! :) It -can't- be, because FreeBSD is not just -me-. I don't run this project. I can't (as in ability) take that onus without cooperation from at least one or more people in the FreeBSD community. I do not have a commit bit, and even if I did, those who have had one and tried taking on an onus before have generally had the commit bit removed for acting on their own. FreeBSD is effectively a group of people (since we are framing wildly now), not just one person. Taking on any onera of any sort in this situation is neither practical nor possible. Therefore I claim your assertion is not only invalid, but misguided since you seem to think I am demanding 'more to be done'. You haven't really read what I said, as I wasn't intending to demand at all and took great linguistic pains to convey that. At the very least, you have somehow put me in that category of demanding people you were originally ranting against, despite the effort I made to communicate about that topic. Given all that, I find I can no longer usefully communicate with you on this topic. > So be the change you want to see in the world rather than asking > for it. Um, yeah. As I predicted, I will have to repeat myself: "I want to be clear that I am not expecting, advocating, or even implying any -involuntary- or -forced- re-focusing of time. To be very clear, I feel that one of the big problems of human culture is this idea of forcing others to do what they don't want to do. I'd like to say that my intention is anything but this and I'll need to repeat this idea because my experiences tell me that people will not understand where I am really coming from unless I repeat it many times...and even then it might not be possible. :)" Have a good day. -- Dave Hayes - Consultant - LA CA, USA - dave@dream-tech.com >>>> *The opinions expressed above are entirely my own* <<<< Worry is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere.