From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 3 03:27:06 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1C6106564A; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:27:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614A28FC17; Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:27:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n133QuXG022835; Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:26:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:27:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20090202.202720.1492586314.imp@bsdimp.com> To: obrien@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20090203002344.GB14870@dragon.NUXI.org> References: <20090202220628.GA76833@dragon.NUXI.org> <20090202.154213.387237162.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090203002344.GB14870@dragon.NUXI.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 03:27:07 -0000 In message: <20090203002344.GB14870@dragon.NUXI.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 03:42:13PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > Right now, we get useless output from these job markers: : > % make -j 3 all : .. : > --- one --- : > --- two --- : > --- three --- : > one : > one : > one : > --- one --- : > one : > two : > two : > two : > --- two --- : > two : > three : .. snip.. : > Based on this, I'd suggest we turn them off until we can at least : > produce good results. I don't know if we want them on by default with : > good results, but we certainly want them off when they are generating : > bad results. : : I would have expected a few days to track down the bug. I don't think so. It is time to put this experiment into the background. The change in defaults is clearly unpopular (14-0 in favor of the patches I posted, not counting your and my votes). Its benefits are unproven at this time. It clearly isn't ready for prime time and needs more testing and careful thought and study. While there may be some minor benefits from this change, if it worked, the overwhelming negative feelings it has generated suggest that the time is not ripe for it socially and that more time is needed to socialize this change within the project before the switch is pulled. If we turn it off now, then that doesn't prevent you from fixing the functionality. It protects the users and developers from faulty data produced by the patches. It also calms down the very inflamed "public opinion" of the developers and users that have cared enough about the patch to send me their votes. I also don't think a couple of days will really matter, but we are wasting way too much time on this issue and it is time to move on and get on with our lives. If you can get it working, and show concrete examples of how it can benefit the project and convince the developers it is a good idea, then we can revisit the issue. Just my two cents, of course. Warner P.S. If you haven't sent me your vote, please do. I'm especially interested to hear from people that like the current patches and would like to see them stay, when fixed.