From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 7 18:32:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C652AB8; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:32:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x229.google.com (mail-qg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31993B35; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:32:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id q107so2823376qgd.14 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:32:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=HxxggHEhn9x0zJrJSehpzDHE6vip3GNN265ekq2sYBE=; b=Wh9gOQ4tL0wh3PTfemsUAcSvgQliu7csyUQXHlX+hW0iTUuE63BYXaqCmEuEXHpCpt xns1D5xbeHd3mjSjyXJ7CSfFE7eJBnbUYUR+5n+xUpca7UUO6rIW3nTeqKgdtOGBBQjf 0YR7UgLIdV7jqYdagXvgG8hZgMZlKElue6Xsj1wlQXpr9RHbfZVWVrAU+3tH6syAbaM7 sI8FJ9c/ZbUTF7H00QUN10LjJIFoGbRGcaVEqoS/NZi6a0LRZZ/HA9mKuldppHBJgOEv 5B2ESwVMhgYweesULQFt1P8LayJfe8gcihxAHt0ufpa/huINXA6m28ftVzrKJKnDiC7V jRRg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.79.132 with SMTP id p4mr20057709qck.14.1415385145290; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:32:25 -0800 (PST) Sender: spankthespam@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.177.202 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:32:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6f0a3ce6d5370d40e4ea888c7eaf6dec@ultimatedns.net> References: <20141031185621.GC15967@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6f0a3ce6d5370d40e4ea888c7eaf6dec@ultimatedns.net> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 19:32:25 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vR2GrtTPvOrhWNe1Xco20KPe2r8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reducing the size of the ports tree (brainstorm v2) From: Bartek Rutkowski To: Chris H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "ports@FreeBSD.org Ports" , Baptiste Daroussin X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:32:26 -0000 On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Chris H wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:08:28 +0000 Bartek Rutkowski wrote > >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > tijl@ spotted an interesting point, distinfo and pkg-descr files files >> > convenient are taking a lot of space for "free", we can reduce the size of >> > the while ports tree by a factor 2 by simply merging them into one of the >> > other files (Makefile and/or pkg-plist) from my testing it really devides >> > significantly the size of the tree. >> > >> > Problem is how to merge them if we want to. >> > >> > What we do not want to loose: >> > - Easyness of parsing distinfo >> > - Easyness to get informations about the description >> > >> > so far I have not been able to figure out a user friendly way >> > >> > Ideas I got so far only concerns pkg-descr: >> > Adding an entry in the Makefile for the WWW: >> > WWW= bla >> > or an entry in the plist: @www http... >> > >> > for the description the Makefile is not suitable as multi line entry in >> > Makefiles are painful >> > Maybe a new keyword: >> > @descr <> > mydesc >> > in >> > multiline >> > EOD >> > >> > which could easily be added to the plist parser in pkg. But I'm do not find >> > that very friendly in particular for make(1) to extract the data. >> > >> > Concerning the distinfo I have no idea. >> > >> > so this mail is a call of ideas :), if nothing nice ideas is found we will >> > just do nothing here :) >> > >> > regards, >> > Bapt >> >> At first I liked the idea, since I was wondering on my own if >> pkg-descr and distinfo couldnt be simply part of the Makefile. In vast >> majority of cases that would look good and wouldnt introduce too much >> content into existing Makefiles. There are ports like www/nginx or >> www/tengine that have enourmous distinfo files with number of entries >> that would ruin readability of their Makefiles, but so far I havent >> seen too many of these so I suppose they'd be the liveable drawbacks >> of new approach. >> >> However, after reading this discussion and some more tinkering about >> the idea I changed my mind - if the goal of current pkg&ports >> activities is to make the pkg the default way of installing packages >> and 'deprecate' ports when that happens, > Aak! Seriously?! Eliminate ports? I _sincerely_ hope that isn't the > intended result of the introduction of pkg(8). That would be a > _horrible_ decision. For more reasons than I can list in a mailing > list reply. Honestly. If this is true, has any real thought gone into > the potential consequences resulting from this? We're not just talking > about the affects on "geeks", and "hobbyists" here. We're talking about > Shops, and Businesses that create specific products, for specific needs, > and chose *BSD for what at least _was_ the freedom, and amount of > _choices_ it offered. Making it, by comparison, more _flexible_ than > it's alternatives. You'll effectively eliminate that market, traveling > in the direction you appear to be going. > If what I understand you to be saying is true. It appears FreeBSD is > simply looking to parrot Linux, and relinquish "The power to serve". > In exchange for competing for a strictly Desktop market. If true. > This will mark a very dark year in history, for FreeBSD. > > Sincerely, > Disappointed. I think we've a little misunderstanding here. At no point I've said nor heard that ports are about to be eliminated. I did hovewer heard that the goal is to deprecate them, as in, encourage users to move to pkg entirely, once pkg is a viable ports replacement, and to make that a default way to install/maintain software on FreeBSD. At the end, it would be very hard to 'eliminate' ports, since we still have to generate the packages with something, dont we? ;) Even said that, I could be completely wrong here, misunderstood someone else and so on, and by no means this discussion is a statement of what is going on to happen with ports/pkg oficially, so, to quote D. Adams: DON'T PANIC. :) Kind regards, Bartek Rutkowski > >> then the amount of work and >> the risk of breaking things by doing this ports improvement outweights >> its benefits. At this point I'd much rather like us to concentrate on >> making pkg a perfect replacement (I am mostly thinking about being >> able to package base for stripped down FreeBSD builds and pkg >> 'flavours' that would allow me install packages with custom options, >> like ports) and hold off making any changes to ports until we can >> safely state that 'pkg is the way to go for 99% of FreeBSD users and >> ports are for that 1% of package builders, nerds, tinkerers' etc., >> unless we simply cant move forward without some change. And just to be >> sure, I am not against improving ports, but rather about making better >> choice of where to put our limited resources - I am supper happy to >> get back to this discussion once we can replace ports with pkg :) >> >> Kind regards, >> Bartek Rutkowski >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"