Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:32:59 +0200 From: Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za> To: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Moving Things [was Re: List of things to move from main tree] Message-ID: <200102170732.f1H7WS952157@gratis.grondar.za> In-Reply-To: <98614.982362113@winston.osd.bsdi.com> ; from Jordan Hubbard <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com> "Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:21:53 PST." References: <98614.982362113@winston.osd.bsdi.com>
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> The needs of all these various interest groups are not mutually
> exclusive. The problem is and always has been that instead of
> starting new jihads concerning specific components, nobody really sits
> down and says "Hmm, /usr/src as updated by cvsup is a good idea.
> /usr/ports is also a good idea. In here somewhere is an even better
> good idea which encompasses many of the best parts of both."
Nail on head with very large hammer.
> Trust me folks, there are MUCH BETTER mechanisms than ports and a
> neatly organized /usr/src which would give us a more tree-structured
> FreeBSD, with "minbin" at the very root and things like MTAs several
> levels up, while also providing the nice free-standing taxonomy that
> /usr/src does. We've learned a tremendous amount about source code
> control and makefile wrappers over the last 9 years of this project,
> we simply haven't really applied that knowledge to our process in any
> truly significant ways. We just keep shoe-horning more shit into the
> same shaped box and complaining that we're running out of room while
> simultaneously defending the existing structures as somehow sacrosanct
> or, at worst, simply needing a fresh coat of paint and some minor
> remodeling. BAH! :)
Right!
We currently split the OS into two classes; src and ports. For a long
time now I have had an idea for more of a continuum, and less of a
dividing line.
Basically it is this:
The src and ports remain, but get redefined in a rather extreme way:
src) is comprised of the truly basic parts of the OS (sort of in GNU
terms) the fileutils, the textutils and the kernel.
ports) becomes those parts which it can be assumed are of interest to
extremely small numbers of people - CAD programs, experimental
languages and the like. (the word "ports" as used to describe
this set could be changed to something like "optional".
In between these two are various (large) collections of things that
are very popular, and are thus deserving of special treatment. Such
things could(would?) be "b-maked but separate", and are chosen for
their (almost) inevitable choice by large numbers of the user base.
Included in this set would be things like:
devel) gcc, g77, gas, binutils, &c
perl5) base perl5, CPAN maintenance stuff.
kerberosIV/KerberosV) with fixes to properly integrate into the "base".
Apache) all-singing, all-dancing works-burger collection.
[x]emacs) all-singing, all-dancing works-burger collection with MULE
as an option.
Jade/SGML/XML) all-singing etc.
sendmail/postfix/qmail/uucp/popserver) (separately maintained)
The above are currently very ably maintained as "pure" ports, and there
are many more in the same sort of class, but I think you get the idea
that they could be made "semi-base" in a sort of b-make tradition, and
looked after as sort of half-ports, but better integrated than current
ports (and in some cases, optionally built in a make world, depending
on the tightness of integration).
> I'd even be willing to take the opium pipe out of my mouth and write
> down some of these grandiose claims in the form of a much clearer
> prototype, but before spending that kind of energy on it I'd first
> like to see some general sign that people aren't dead-set on arguing
> about individual leaves rather than thinking about the whole tree for
> a change.
How's my above sound as a first kick (with no religion attached)?
(I'd love to work on this as a project, BTW)
M
--
Mark Murray
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