Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 20:37:28 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> To: Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org> Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using a FreeBSD desktop was somehting about dog food Message-ID: <20220330203728.830a79165bfc560a34de70e7@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20220330115445.16cb798e@bigus.dream-tech.com> References: <38b7f44-6d54-fec6-c1f0-d3609d301687@safeport.com> <20220327132420.201da20c@archlinux> <20220327212421.adaee52ba708a058e5ef6bd8@sohara.org> <4f3edca7-45ec-b8ae-45dc-9648cced9bfe@kicp.uchicago.edu> <772cf4b0-9e26-3126-ec4b-bd91986883dd@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20220328055449.8a30774a61f3b298e778ae68@sohara.org> <20220328121115.7d368d32@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220328213101.b4e8a7c447964ba025d30883@sohara.org> <20220328173414.0572dd85@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220329071850.bca73cd201ca6d5d957c532d@sohara.org> <20220329233846.22526db6@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220330081719.00abd669621d98dd178ab8a3@sohara.org> <20220330115445.16cb798e@bigus.dream-tech.com>
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:54:45 -0700 Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org> wrote: > Mostly, my intent in the initial response (in a fora where my responses > are met with the same old assumptions) was to point out the irony in > seeing topics pass by FreeBSD's forums wanting more people to use > FreeBSD, but then seeing topics wanting them to shut up and take what > they are given or be seen as rude. It is hard to believe that this ironic > conundrum, which has looped for easily 20 years, is not seen clearly, but That's because it is not an ironic conundrum but a complete misunderstanding of what the FreeBSD project members are likely to want. > that is apparently the case. If you want more users, you would need to be They don't want more users who contribute nothing to the project. These are the price of finding what they do want or something like that. > nicer to them and not call them rude for wanting their desktop to work. > If you want less users, you tell them to shut up and take what they are > given and if you are consistent in this then you refrain from complaining > about mindshare. They want more developers and contributors - people who write code, people who write actionable bug reports, people who write documentation, people who organise events, people who write concrete achievable proposals, people who keep ports up to date, people who answer questions in mailing lists ... The message isn't "Take what you're given" it's "If you want more then pitch in and make it happen - but first make sure that the rest of the project wants it too" - after all that's exactly what they did, why should they expect less of anyone else ? Oh and finally - you talk about desktops. There are no desktops in FreeBSD, there are no GUI applications in FreeBSD and there is no GUI in FreeBSD these are *all* third party applications that run on FreeBSD courtesy of the folks who look after their ports to FreeBSD. Complaints about them to the FreeBSD project are simply misdirected, try instead to engage with the relevant port maintainer (or in the case of the larger projects team) and learn something of their trials and tribulations dealing with the upstream developers whose goals may not include FreeBSD, or engage directly with those upstream developers. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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