From nobody Wed Jul 30 03:14:37 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsHQ25KFDz631J6 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [66.165.241.226]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsHQ20n5Jz3bmq for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomadlogic.org; s=04242021; t=1753845277; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RNgiv7Y9XFTm0jhKLNgezD9X6Dix2Cocv5Nt3DElBCY=; b=jlztBF2TLjW5NLvnLMsSDM9TYAIdRM1NLIXB0FeW73EQ4Avb9ggOb4exnC4YN+lgqFPctV RikLHYRbvVdYA4Oa2H6WjSjSh9X3XQN1CFWWVgfAUWC0XyliBkBXQ8nGtvFL6EXoQcR5K8 9DWE8iAkrn8CXqh96H8ylrTBet6yLag= Received: from [192.168.1.182] (47-150-35-101.fdr01.snmn.ca.ip.frontiernet.net [47.150.35.101]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 4aa7dd13 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <05e21800-f283-4d78-922d-76d9a9aad2d0@nomadlogic.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2025 20:14:37 -0700 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Shawn Webb , vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Pete Wright In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsHQ20n5Jz3bmq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29802, ipnet:66.165.240.0/22, country:US] On 7/29/25 19:18, Shawn Webb wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: >> Hi, >> >> after short discussion here: >> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >> >> I got REALLY concerned. >> >> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. >> >> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >> >> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >> >> Consider this command: >> >> # pkg delete -af >> >> What it does? >> >> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >> >> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >> >> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: >> >> - FreeBSD-clibs >> - FreeBSD-runtime >> >> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > Hey vermaden, > > As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room > for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if > the current list (of two) should be expanded. > > I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical > measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. > > I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of > discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a > positive direction. Fortunately pkgbase doesn't seem to be changing what is IMHO the real differentiator of BSD - the fact that the tools, userland and kernel are all part of one coherent development process. This feels like a natural progression to me. To the original point of ensuring you can't nuke the entire base system by accident. one idea i didn't see on the github thread (apologies if i missed it) is adding a config parameter to the repo config. So perhaps a FreeBSD-base.conf could look like so: FreeBSD-base: { url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_release_3", mirror_type: "srv", signature_type: "fingerprints", fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", enabled: yes protected: yes } where "protected" would prevent packages from getting outright deleted? I could even see this getting extended to private repo configs - for example i may want to make sure people can't uninstall the software i deploy to my site using our internal repo. -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org