From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 04:04:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3451FCA629 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 04:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com (mail-oi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2529473D7D for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 04:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id c128-v6so12157634oig.11 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:04:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=Xz9uWxl0kvOxJmIl5TCFnLw6yZTWdjuwUxesEY24Qa0=; b=RxDk9G49kl9S53ylZywMnImKyLrAyqQQMBUSjpvRWwmwPKfEHdh05WjTfD+fT/xZUA 6GwhtFYHO4vgJWjoTRRpbFXhPu/LgQD8hEzF+vNgWVujVt1I0+7buUeCGlsc+NuzQhdl lgNgxB09ioye5U8McF/azxRouans45oCHXsSOJaU1xr6XvqvRmv12FOgwiMDpbZMXANj J4zRBnPcHOBBIaDRtRNaAfSKa1q2G3gJ2T7KCvgVMbXhU1lAFxGm6XO9K9YO8UMEkx5m RFdDdz4/EcEpX/w2dIdIHwH8fLTj+XC1YuUTsdM/0Qb3EQAOu2vFAGRf5WGOQstaCoOB TFdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Xz9uWxl0kvOxJmIl5TCFnLw6yZTWdjuwUxesEY24Qa0=; b=K/GDxHFz+GcRBJPfpzQfljDYugHOMekQF2XtPbjP16mWxtEhQarEt6ZzYt17PpN6Vm DqkNlVON0GMvw25oN4wKTLlgoCcA6/39kXWikyasJKuOsmNG+EA4qTD/maR9cln8D/xD Mp22+ncjwy5jAuNCfhTjAM3TQQ/U2dP66EKAL7ZSJSHUS4LOeY67Hr7jyf3AEikM9W0L onLmArQKk57VkSMDBfFmP6xyIl+mVPtY+KbWEvUX9UDbU4HbZdMPprNhElCTuaxw1IuT 2+LfVm6GXNy4w5NIS+xt+CrjVC3z4Qym/mL9xUPH5j0BfodrJ5YUHcdnLEcrpIOwK2vB RadQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwcjLL3iZMJB83C/ulfPEN8ZihBsYcS3SutHyR58SCuSTR5a9aa+ ZyL/DaYpF9hV0jH9w1rSlk+WNq2dMQzEJNWI9qWcJnl1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLqLz+xDhravpDzHI8TZOajKPoJityOSyayJ/sp75zbqImaWr3a2oIlqJVvVn2vRwZzFhtL7AYlxz+BTLVDieo= X-Received: by 2002:aca:3a42:: with SMTP id h63-v6mr4976858oia.251.1527825866310; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:04:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: kmacybsd@gmail.com Received: by 2002:a9d:3f0:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:04:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180601032510.GJ11482@over-yonder.net> References: <20180524160234.GD68014@FreeBSD.org> <201805241610.w4OGAAGY041280@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20180530235156.310870d0@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <20180531101643.GV3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180531204946.GB24090@lonesome.com> <20180601032510.GJ11482@over-yonder.net> From: "K. Macy" Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:04:25 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: t0ayEefB_HfAwyL9aM7ht0qnw5Y Message-ID: Subject: Re: PR backlog (was: [RFC] Deprecation and removal of the drm2 driver) To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 04:04:28 -0000 > > I wrote up a couple more paragraphs about why I think it happens and > what we'd need to do to import more of that sense over into src. But > it was way longer than it needs to be. We get a lot more man-hours in > ports/ acting as conduits for the "outside patches -> svn" pipeline > because the incentives are rigged. A bad outside contribution brought > into ports more often yields "hey, you should have noticed" to the > committer and more opprobrium back to the submitter. A bad outside > contribution brought into src falls all over the commiter. > > Not entirely unreasonable, since a lot of even small-ish breakages in > src are much bigger deals than even large-ish breakages in ports. But > it still makes it expensive to contemplate being a conduit... Whereas the incentives in ports are structured such as to encourage being a conduit and arguably it's a big part of being a responsible porter, in src there is an active disincentive. A committer invites substantial criticism by breaking src by importing a change but invites no criticism for ignoring review requests or patches. There are a few people who go through the pain of wading through patches and committing them but as a general rule one has to have some level of rapport with a proxy to get changes in without a bit. Whereas with TrueOS the Git PR system lets one submit a change, the CI system builds it to verify, and then it's thumbs up or thumbs down and it goes in, undergoes further review / refinement, or is rejected outright. There's something to be said for automation. Submitting enhancements is even harder. There's always someone who will be upset by a change in existing behavior, no matter how logical a change may seem to the rest of us. This obvious change is almost 10 years old and seems completely common sense: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139389 I've been keeping it in my bookmarks hoping that Eitan will commit it, but may at some point overcome my reservations and just go ahead and commit. My problem with the bug system is classification. If a bug report refers to something I touched recently, it's easy to assign it to me. However, when I've tried wading through the bug system to find things that I might be able to fix, I have not found it easy at all. This is where culling older bug reports comes in. With a poor signal to noise ratio from too many PRs, what really happens is _fewer_ things get fixed, not more. Cheers. -M