From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jul 13 06:33:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA18335 for current-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 06:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.tlk.com (root@pegasus.tlk.com [194.97.84.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA18330 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 06:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ramsey.tb.9715.org(really [194.97.84.65]) by pegasus.tlk.com via sendmail with esmtp (ident root using rfc1413) id for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:33:21 +0200 (CEST)) Received: by ramsey.tb.9715.org via sendmail with stdio id for jkh@time.cdrom.com; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:33:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: From: torstenb@ramsey.tb.9715.org (Torsten Blum) Subject: Re: Heads up and and a call for a show of hands. In-Reply-To: <16159.868757788@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jul 12, 97 06:36:28 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:33:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hans@brandinnovators.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > What you've seen as behind-the-door commits in these two occasions > (/var/mail and ld.so.conf) are not the result of some secret vendor > cabal... Maybe, maybe not. My Problems with those two cases: - both requests came from the same vendor - there was no discussion before the commit happened - they're bad examples and might result in a bad signal to other vendors. If we continue with this (adding features without "asking") other vendors will do the same... > On these two occasions, the subsequent flame wars which erupted were > characterised more by their heat than by their light, and as I don't > have a lot of time for highly emotional arguments which serve no > reasonable purpose other than to piss all over some feature without > proposing a reasonable, concrete solution to the same problem, or are > driven by what seems to be some greater need to harp endlessly on some > diversionary topic of convenience rather than spending the energy more > constructively working on real (and harder) problems, I basically > switched off it after a few days. Another Problem with such "features": As soon as you have at least one release with it, it becomes hard to replace it with a better but different and incompat. method. _This_ causes our _users_ problems and this is the reason why we should think about it before a commit. Dunno about Satoshi, but I am worried about the recent commits. In both cases the requests came from XiG and they "need" it for CDE. Maybe this will cause a real flame war, but... I think one of the reasons why both requests were accepted is the FreeBSD/CDE bundle. I don't have anything against companies making money with FreeBSD and/or their own software (I even do it myself), but I expect those people to use existing mechan. (/usr/{local,X11R6}/etc/rc.d is one of them) or fix a bug (/var/mail). -tb -- Torsten Blum, Friedensstraße 13a, 82110 Gemering, Munich, Germany "Wow, die Leute hier von DEC schreiben Ihre Dokumentation mit LaTeX... Ich bin im gelobten Land... Es gibt also die kommerzielle - PC und M$ freie Welt" -- Arne Steinkamm