Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:54:11 -0400 From: Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com> To: Joe Rhett <jrhett@isite.net> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proper process for reporting bugs Message-ID: <408D4CC3.70001@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: <20040426174027.GB8786@isite.net> References: <20040426162053.GC2726@isite.net> <20040426165558.91746.qmail@web14106.mail.yahoo.com> <20040426170220.GB6538@isite.net> <408D4557.6070401@potentialtech.com> <20040426174027.GB8786@isite.net>
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Joe Rhett wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 01:22:31PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
>
>>Secondly (and more importantly) I believe his point is that the way things
>>get fixed is through PRs ... whether or not you have patches is not the
>>point. If you don't file a PR, it probably won't get fixed. If you do
>>file a PR, you have something to ping people about (i.e. "Hey, has anyone
>>looked at fixing PR/####?")
>>While PRs that include patches are preferred, there's nothing to stop you
>>from filing a PR that simply lists the things that are lacking in the
>>handbook. It's likely to take a LOT longer to get handled, but you can
>>still do it.
>>
>>This is _not_ the correct forum for this kind of discussion, however.
>
> And yet, the guidelines for the PRs specifically state that submissions
> that have not been discussed in the mailing list will likely be ignored.
> So instead of just submitting reports into GNATs, I did what the guidelines
> suggested and posted it in the mailing list first.
It appears as if the major problem is simply a communication difficulty.
I did not mean that this is the wrong forum for discussing PRs, patches and
fixes.
I meant that this is the wrong forum for discussing policy, and whether or
not you think FreeBSD is a good project or not. Those kind of posts belong
on Slashdot or similar.
This forum is for taking the FreeBSD project forward. I understand if you
don't have time to craft well-written PRs with patches, but (unfortunately)
myself and most others are in that same situation. As a result, PRs
without patches are likely to be ignored - NOT because we don't like you
or we don't like the idea, or we are Nazi whackos ... but simply because
we don't have the time to fix it either.
The counter-argument to this is that I apparently have tons of time to
write emails, but I could use that argument against you as well.
> For which I have gotten sarcastic responses and insults.
I'm sorry ... I may have missed some posts, but so far the only sarcasm and
insults I've seen have come from you and been directed at the FreeBSD
project as a whole. For example:
"So from this point forward I'll keep my comments to myself, instead of
going out of my way to bring things to the attention of those that can fix
them. Didn't realize FreeBSD doesn't care about those things, but I've
certainly gotten that impression direct and clear over the last few days."
> I _DID_ follow the process documented on the FreeBSD website.
Yes, you did.
> The maturity
> level of responses I have received leaves much to be desired.
Again ... the only immature responses I've seen so far have been yours. I
understand that you're frustrated ... so am I. I have a list of things so
long that need done that I'll never get to most of them, and it's
frustrating to me. The fact that I have to take time to try to cool down
this argument (when I should be fixing a problem with phppdflib) is even
more frustrating.
Please don't make it a waste of my time by being nothing more than a Troll.
I've gone out of my way in the past to help a frustrated newcomer only to
find out that the newcomer was completely unreasonable.
Stop. Take a deep breath. Now consider the following:
1) What you're asking for may seem reasonable to you, but may not be at
the top of everyone elses list. Just because it seems like a good
idea to you doesn't mean it does to everyone else. This why salesmen
get paid so much, because they're good at convincing people of things.
2) If someone _did_ respond to you with sarcasm and insult, then you're
not helping anything by responding in like kind. If you really care
about improving things, you'll ignore those responses and focus on
something constructive (like posts that aren't insult and sarcasm)
3) If you continue with this thread in the tone that you're taking, you're
likely to inspire continued insults and sarcasm, which will waste a
lot of everyone's time, and eventually get you banned from the mailing
list.
--
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com
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