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Date:      Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:54:47 -0600 (CST)
From:      "Valeri Galtsev" <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
To:        "Daniel Feenberg" <feenberg@nber.org>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: What's in my hard drive? How can I get rid of it?
Message-ID:  <52304.128.135.70.2.1424285687.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20150218180824.GB53030@slackbox.erewhon.home>
References:  <54E39F83.70002@gmail.com> <mc0ad5$qu2$1@ger.gmane.org>    <alpine.LRH.2.11.1502171829280.7759@sas1.nber.org>    <51803.128.135.70.2.1424219858.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>    <20150218180824.GB53030@slackbox.erewhon.home>

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On Wed, February 18, 2015 12:08 pm, Roland Smith wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 06:37:38PM -0600, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>> On Tue, February 17, 2015 5:30 pm, Daniel Feenberg wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Michael Powell wrote:
>> >
>> >> jd1008 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> >> Remove the cover. Remove the platters. Smash all platters with large
sledge
>> >> hammer until all pieces are fairly small. Melt material with
oxyacetylene
>> >> welders torch. Repeat smashing with hammer. Soak for few hours in
hydrofluoric acid. Rinse and allow to dry. Grind material into a
fine
>> >> particulate dust. Dispose of out the back of airplane while flying
or
>> >> drop
>> >> into convenient nearby volcano. That might be good enough.
>> >>
>> >> Send the electronic components to Kaspersky for analysis.
>> >
>> > I did once investigate claims that overwritten sectors could be read
>> by
>> > sophisticated instruments and posted my results at:
>> >
>> >    http://www.nber.org/sys-admin/overwritten-data-gutmann.html
>> >
>> > In short - that is pure science fiction.
>> >
>> Interesting. I never saw this particular explanation. I have heard that
overwiritten data can be recovered (to significant extent).
>
> From “Overwriting Hard Drive Data: The Great Wiping Controversy” by
Craig Wright,
> Dave Kleiman, and Shyaam Sundhar R.S;
>
> To start with;
>
>     The acquisition time for 1 byte is about 4 minutes.
>
> At that speed, you can read 128 KiB in a year! Furthermore:
>
>     Consequently, we can categorically state that there is a minimal
(less
>     than a 0.01% chance) of recovering any data on a NEW and unused
drive
> that
>     has a single raw wipe pass (not even a low-level format). In the
cases
>     where a drive has been used (even being formatted for use) it is not
possible to recover the information – there is a small chance of
bit
>     recovery, but the odds of obtaining a whole word are small.
>
> Conclusion:
>
>     Although there is a good chance of recovery for any individual bit
> from a
>     drive, the chances of recovery of any amount of data from a drive
> using an
>     electron microscope are negligible.
>
> You can get the paper from e.g.
> http://www.vidarholen.net/~vidar/overwriting_hard_drive_data.pdf
>

Thanks for the reference. Still, you reference has to do with another
reference ("Gutman") which basically is about information that stays there
due to track misalignment and similar. This, however has nothing to do
with what I have described (which is deleted from the quote in this your
e-mail; whoever is interested can get back to my original e-mail with
lengthy description) which basically is about information that sat on the
platter for years in the same physical locations and magnetic domain aging
will leave some residual magnetization after it is uniformly magnetized
(no matter what happened for short period of time in between). I hope to
find that source...

Valeri

> A single wipe of a HDD is enough to destroy the data beyond hope of
recovery.
>
> For an SSD or other flash-based storage the picture is different. For
one
> thing, because of the controller on those storage devices you cannot be
sure
> that overwriting a block of data on location X actually is written to
location
> X.
>
>
> Roland
> --
> R.F.Smith
http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/
> [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much
appreciated]
> pgp: 5753 3324 1661 B0FE 8D93  FCED 40F6 D5DC A38A 33E0 (keyID:
A38A33E0)
>


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++







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