From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 17:22:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CB316A79F; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7859A43D62; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NHM6lv092527; Tue, 23 May 2006 11:22:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 11:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> References: <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:42 -0000 From: Scott Long Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > Alexander Leidinger writes: > > = > >>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:= 58 +0200): > >> > >>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > >>> > >>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > >>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > >>> > >>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sys= ctl > >>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > >> > >>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most > >>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm = of > >>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we ha= ve > >>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, = but > >>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary= > >>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > >>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > = > > = > > Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > > device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > > correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them wh= en > > the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent fo= r > > breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > = > > DES > = > The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporar= y. > Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls= > as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define > "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of = > sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent,= > which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what= > parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the = > previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that w= e > should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the > 'correct place'. Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's "tmp" In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. Warner