From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Dec 20 18:11:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E23134F37A for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:11:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3FF8C498 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:11:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FBC71804D for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:11:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: pkg upgrade firefox hoses mate To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3ce2cfe1-3a54-b087-4df0-e7598cdaf40d@qeng-ho.org> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <274865ad-6a0a-2273-5ec9-914f48b01c05@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:11:33 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6F3FF8C498 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.20)[0.205,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.57)[0.575,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.02)[country: US(-0.08)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[kicp.uchicago.edu]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.43)[0.433,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 18:11:41 -0000 On 12/20/18 11:09 AM, Scott Ballantyne wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:46 AM Carmel NY wrote: > >> On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 10:58:47 -0500, Scott Ballantyne stated: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:26 AM Arthur Chance >> wrote: >>> >>>> On 20/12/2018 15:06, Scott Ballantyne wrote: >>>>> Good morning all, >>>>> This is on a 10.4-release-p9 freebsd system. >>>> >>>> 10.4 hit end of life at the end of October so there's no guarantee any >>>> port will work with it. You need to upgrade to 11 or 12. >>>> >>>> >>> Yes, so I gather. However, I would draw a distinction between a port >>> 'failing to work' and >>> a port destroying a necessary function of a previously working system... >> >> To paraphrase something I once heard a speaker say, "It is not the OS's job >> to stop a user from shooting themselves in the foot, but rather to deliver >> the bullet with a high degree of accuracy." >> >> > I don't disagree with that sentiment in the general case, but when 'user > friendly enhancements' > are supplied such as binary updates, they should be user friendly. > > More than once, I have crashed a system with an upgrade/update. There are two ways of looking at that: 1. Hey, I did some administration, things got screwed up. It must be a "pilot error", I'll find out what I should have done differently (and why). This lies in line with what Carmel told you, and usually my attitude attitude is the same. As, using almighty privileges, one can screw up anything 2. Another attitude could be: wait, I just executed trivial command ("pkg -y install ..."), and answered some question reasonably I think, and things got grossly screwed up. So this whole thing (system, pkg utility etc) is screwed up. Well, there are many things that are involved in equation here, and as you know already I do not support this attitude. Most importantly in my opinion: this attitude is counter-productive from the point of view of your main goal, which in my understanding is: to have this system work for you with that extra software you need. So, my suggestion seems transparent: try to find out what you need to do and how to make things work. Namely, change to attitude 1. Valeri >> >> If you have the option, do a "fresh" install of FreeBSD 12. The >> "freebsd-update" program will leave you with more problems. >> >> > So far you have been on target with that observation... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++