From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Jul 10 19:05:30 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1913D659BBC for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 19:05:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GMfcT35bzz4jZs for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 19:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id t5so3622475wrw.12 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kmO5sYJ9wWz1KXqyDKh5WJICdg25zDdUEE+yMYcTPIU=; b=hZmeI4Zcvc2/m91OFvmxquiW/40P5Nwc+ggR5/wrxBD+GB+arFbl+J6lWtwnF3RAcZ H3oR7ApeoIqAWXnyJE2SoeR+8iDpLFdF890Nr1qbz2aug0wgVJB0rY0YTvUQitM1YkhP zL9OespUNRyNLgKKN81o3DbbvN+5xDd6SHVXD0RcpnlVujhQ7g7t6RK5l3fgGJe/yOeB /574faEyxFcXyXwi0ZWMeC+n+g/IBs7+3aJ2v0GD4bEFapRhzY9oidCZTiGOWjaKdVCI b9oU+oICHiofc1nmOXgfDD4Qq+eNdBdBOmcSWZ5i0S1qzOIbJGk3KSMMFSS4kTEpk40V he3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kmO5sYJ9wWz1KXqyDKh5WJICdg25zDdUEE+yMYcTPIU=; b=ER0v6lAhkQXDJmh5WtCg+HQuZbpTC/lxGoZsW+LLZttamRlq+OS/hLJ4g/aVwJhfMk 3F1Bii4EmuCuAz1HwP6lbD0TzUiPolnyX42s5ZjM/K1ls98FXQvnQzCq8UKiUdMU/D+e qWCSw/DR3kyKfDKYLaXcqxkgSaPDN9DWV8nhnCbynaGwZ2jwZZpkvImkLsRxHL2HjE8f gDzSP6I3B31sJTtVKbmj8S56mvnnplkFHMcDQHJJEJTsNV+RMc/a4cA33ytUr6ZHJmIQ dfTDEgtWEERUsAmPl7xfNi28LeglGhvkOOIEDezlpP3cAz8PQomjEe6yNxgTbfke7YX0 FV8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5334uMydH5DTFsTxErXl9t06PlzjD1+rFSaEDAg5ow3jydcK3O8g mYYnsWLBj811bs6NOD3YQuZTmV0TriQ6eznV7zSXQGu/0jFp+FhK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyxrXR6w/swWRI3K+rYj053ACv9Q7U0n2dvlupLD/hsg/PYkCzJkt0jOWWb91ISNeLbGNDf65CIYS5tWHqnsDo= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:528d:: with SMTP id c13mr49595376wrv.343.1625943927529; Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 21:05:06 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Goodbye To: David Raver Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4GMfcT35bzz4jZs X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=hZmeI4Zc; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::433) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.24 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.939]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::433:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::433:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::433:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 19:05:30 -0000 BSD are general purpose (server, desktop, embedded) system for advanced and aware users. Default installation won't do anything for you except default base installation, nor the OS won't do anything until you command it to do something. After FreeBSD install you only get standardized base OS that you can then customize and adapt. But when you do its rock solid. This is the strongest part of BSD. If you don't like that philosophy probably it may not be the best OS for you, or it's not the time yet. Sorry that you feel disappointed. It requires some skills, knowledge, and persistence to learn new things. Probably the error was on your side (it always is in my case I shamefully admit). I have several workstations upgraded from 9.0 release upwards with no problem for many many years. I write this email from a machine that started at FreeBSD 10 and went up through all minor releases up to 13.0. But it is you who is responsible for OS management, understanding how things work, so they work as you want. FreeBSD is "raw" OS, some people love it for that, some people prefer Linux with easy "click and do it for me" approach, some people work with Open-Source on Windows. Linux can do something for you but then it's not always what you want and things will break for sure after several updates. See kernal api changes with every minor release. See UX/UI changes enforced on most popular distros (i.e. Ubuntu). Also beware of kernel/libc/glibc impact on all system components, or even worse quick-and-dirty-bleeding-edge-hacks that only works in one particular case on particular version of Linux. Not to mention Windows or MacOS because they are closed source so you cannot customize the OS itself. BSD is the best environment to test software quality, so the idea to test software portability on *BSD in the first place (there are various flavors like OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD derivatives like MidnightBSD, DragonFlyBSD, etc) is the best idea you can have. Good approach. I also work like this not only with various computer software components but also embedded toolchains for firmware development on various CPU/MCU architectures (i.e. Zephyr RTOS, ARM MBED, FreeRTOS, Arduino, etc). In software world things break occasionally. Show me a commercial OS that has no problems. Maybe you need more time to understand how things work here? :-) If you simply want to test compilation on FreeBSD based OS that has already the Xorg in default install and provides live media that "just boots what you need" try MidnightBSD :-) https://www.midnightbsd.org/ I hope that you will eventually come back to FreeBSD (or its derivative) one day.. and then you will know why :-) Take care! :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info