From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 10 19:17:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E0C5737B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24917 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 2001 03:17:27 -0000 Received: from pd9508835.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO speedy.gsinet) (217.80.136.53) by mail.gmx.net (mail05) with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 03:17:27 -0000 Received: (from sittig@localhost) by speedy.gsinet (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA31472; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:39:07 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:39:07 +0100 From: Gerhard Sittig To: Doug Barton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: how to test out cron.c changes? (was: cvs commit: src/etc crontab) Message-ID: <20010110233907.L253@speedy.gsinet> References: <200011191816.KAA81473@freefall.freebsd.org> <20001119214008.Z27042@speedy.gsinet> <20001120143658.B4415@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> <20001120193326.C27042@speedy.gsinet> <20001205225656.Z27042@speedy.gsinet> <20001220211548.T253@speedy.gsinet> <3A513799.75EAB470@FreeBSD.org> <20010102133239.V253@speedy.gsinet> <20010107170840.G253@speedy.gsinet> <3A5AE490.D251F590@gorean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3A5AE490.D251F590@gorean.org>; from DougB@gorean.org on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:14:40AM -0800 Organization: System Defenestrators Inc. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:14 -0800, Doug Barton wrote: > Gerhard Sittig wrote: > > > > It's not that I want to talk you into something you don't > > want. > > But that's exactly what you're trying to do. Honestly -- no! :) OK, I've been unclear there. I did reply to your message, but writing to lists I usually do so for a broader audience -- for everything else I could use PM instead. So my continued proposal and discussion is mainly meant for those who do have interest in making cron work the way many users expect it to. Maybe more silent readers may find reasons against the proposal I fail to see, so far? I have no doubt that there is positive - while silent - agreement. Although I recognize you've dealt with the subject in much detail, know it's anything but trivial, and are aware that FreeBSD currently has no real solution, I realize you like telling all the concerned admins to shift their jobs around instead of accepting code changes meaning to make things work OOTB. It's nothing I can change. And it's nothing I would want to change after some amount of effort. We both (as well as others) have stated our impressions and that they're quite fixed and won't move. Let's end it here. > I will not bother to re-re-restate my points as to why what > you're proposing is a bad idea. Do all the testing you want, > but make sure you understand that there will be vigorous > resistance to incorporating your proposed changes. I take notice of your (and Greg Black's) reservation / being opposed, respect it and conclude that the change will have to - default to the current behaviour (something quite usual for expanding changes) - be well documented (something absolutely clear to all of us, strictly speaking it's way out of imagination for us how somebody could contribute undocumented stuff ... :) - yet be enabled easily for those interested in the change to work for them and free up some of their resources for more important tasks - maybe provide knobs (besides the on-off-switch) to customize behaviour in a more fine grained way Looking at the echo returning so far I see _much_ more "yes" than "nope" answers. There's consent that *something* has to be done. And I read the answers ranging from "yes, please do it!" (some six) via "I don't care -- as long as there's no impact on me ..." (one or two) to the few "I don't like it, I don't have this problem / I don't see this as a problem" (two, and the "explanation" is my guess -- but it's the only reason I could see for this position). Although I'm aware that statistics won't work for these small numbers - ten people took part in the thread so far - there's a trend visible to me. :> When in doubt, one could dig up in the archives how many threads took place in the past that "cron does strange things", which would enormously put weight on the "please do change something" section ... BTW: There's good news for those with a dislike regarding the change: While testing I'm stuck again, so there will be some more delay. It looks like I have to setup another OpenBSD machine to look into it a little deeper. Those who are interested in the status reached so far may contact me off list. virtually yours 82D1 9B9C 01DC 4FB4 D7B4 61BE 3F49 4F77 72DE DA76 Gerhard Sittig true | mail -s "get gpg key" Gerhard.Sittig@gmx.net -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message