From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 27 15:57:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8FC16A4CE for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:57:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B27443D55 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:57:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flowers@nekulturny.org) Received: from pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr8so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.184]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I6900HXO2Z7JP90@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml9so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.7]) by pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I690013W2Z7OJ40@pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from procyon.nekulturny.org (S0106000c41b2b9a3.cg.shawcable.net [68.144.45.143]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I6900DAC2Z60R@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from procyon.nekulturny.org (localhost.nekulturny.org [127.0.0.1]) i9RFv687000977; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:06 -0600 (MDT envelope-from flowers@nekulturny.org) Received: (from flowers@localhost) by procyon.nekulturny.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i9RFv4EN000976; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:04 -0600 (MDT envelope-from flowers) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:04 -0600 From: Danny MacMillan In-reply-to: To: Ted Mittelstaedt Message-id: <20041027155704.GA861@procyon.nekulturny.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline References: <017b01c4bb78$28263a00$4df24243@tsgincorporated.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: TM4525@aol.com cc: Micheal Patterson cc: stefan@swebase.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious investigations into UNIX and Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:57:46 -0000 On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 02:24:04AM -0600, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > ... > > You take any inexperienced Windows 'administrator' (and I use the > term loosely) block diagram out your network, give him a bank check > and tell him to go duplicate it. You wouldn't see more than 2% of them > be able to do it. So much for Windows being 'easy' It's only easy > if you know what your doing. But, then again, so is UNIX. > > Ted I agree. Microsoft concentrates on accessibility, reducing the apparent complexity until it can be readily (or at least much more easily) grasped by people who would be otherwise unable or unwilling to do so. They excel at lowering the entry-level requirements for performing computing tasks. Hence Visual Basic, Windows Server 2003, Exchange Server, &c. These programs are very discoverable. You don't need to have a good understanding of what you're doing in order to get them to work -- the program itself provides sufficient hinting through the user interface to guide you through the process. Suddenly ANYONE can be a programmer or system administrator! The problem is, =only= the entry level requirements are reduced. Or, rather, Microsoft enables you to deal with the complexity gradually instead of all at once. It's a great approach for a world where people hate reading the instructions on how to put together their barbeque. Unix is more the other way; if you don't understand what you're doing before you begin you are going to be doing a lot of reading. You SHOULD do the reading on the MS side, too; you just don't have to. I don't disdain the Microsoft pointy-clicky approach. It is easier to use because it provides psychological tools to help manage complexity. However, when things don't work you still have to do the learning you were able to defer at the beginning. I'd say if all you ever need is the first 80%, less skill is required on the Windows side than the Unix side because Microsoft has made an effort to make that 80% accessible. After that you'll need someone equally skilled as on the Unix side. The problem is, most people on the MS side who are at the 80% mark have 20% of the "required" knowledge (the rest being embedded in the tools). Everyone on the Unix side at 80% had to absorb 80% of the knowledge to get there. So when you need the next 5%, you're more likely to find competent help in the Unix world (at least that's been my experience). -- Danny