From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 12 01:09:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B004B1065670 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 01:09:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC928FC1A for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 01:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (home-nat.elischer.org [67.100.89.137]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9C19WSF018751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4E94E8D2.8010502@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:09:38 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arnaud Lacombe References: <4E942FF1.9000805@FreeBSD.org> <4E9449F2.2000801@FreeBSD.org> <4E944BA5.4080506@lerctr.org> <83FC19FA-BD52-4383-9ABE-708161597B85@mac.com> <589d032a-7b71-4ff1-8adf-f5e49e87696c@email.android.com> <4E949C26.4070105@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: System headers with clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 01:09:36 -0000 On 10/11/11 12:57 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: >> On 10/11/11 12:36 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >>>> [...] >>> libprocstat is _itself_ a problem: >>> >>> % git grep 'define _KERNEL' . >>> [...] >>> lib/libprocstat/cd9660.c:#define _KERNEL >>> lib/libprocstat/nwfs.c:#define _KERNEL >>> lib/libprocstat/smbfs.c:#define _KERNEL >>> lib/libprocstat/udf.c:#define _KERNEL >>> lib/libprocstat/zfs.c:#define _KERNEL >>> [...] >>> >>> ok, I admit this is all FS related stuff :) >> but at least it comes with the system so it matches. >> > no, you should be able to run a FreeBSD 1.0 userland and a 9-RELEASE > kernel together and have all utilities working. If not, you cannot > claim to support backward compatibility, even if you do on a subset of > kernel/userland interface. That said, this is just my personal > opinion. > >> we've been looking for the 'right' way to do this since, hmmm, 1988 that I >> remember and I bet before that too. >> > then the job was done bad. I didn't say we DID it I said we've been looking for the right answer. libkvm was a small step... you really don't want to know what was done before that. I've run FreeBSD 1.1 on a freeBSD 8 jail so I know what you mean, you have to put some things like 'ps' and ifconfig, and 'netstat' into it (statically compiled) or you can't get anywhere but even if there was a differnt interface, the likelyhood of it still being valid after 19 years pretty small. > I will repeat myself here, but I ran what-was-to-become-Linux-v3.2 > kernel on a 4 years old openwrt image and still had a functional > system. Comparatively, I could not mix FreeBSD 7-STABLE userland and > 8-STABLE kernel, The 8-STABLE kernel even changed the FS enough to > make FreeBSD 7 unable to boot (even single user). actually due to libkvm there are actually a lot of programs that will work over the 7-8 boundary... a lot more than used to. between, say 2 and 3. > Let me emphasize again that it is only my personal opinion :-) Yep but its shared.. Unfortunately the problem is actually trickier than first appears. My own attempt at it can be seen with netgraph, where we instituted a text based config scheme, and in geom where PHK made an XML config scheme. > - Arnaud >