Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:12:23 -0400 From: Mikhail Teterin <mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com> To: Harti Brandt <brandt@fokus.gmd.de> Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>, Mikhail Teterin <mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com>, <i18n@FreeBSD.ORG>, Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@FreeBSD.ORG>, <anholt@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: recap (Re: koi8-r is obsoleted by koi8-u) Message-ID: <200209061112.23386.mi%2Bmx@aldan.algebra.com> In-Reply-To: <20020906090027.J6320-100000@beagle.fokus.gmd.de> References: <20020906090027.J6320-100000@beagle.fokus.gmd.de>
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On Friday 06 September 2002 03:13 am, Harti Brandt wrote: = On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Mikhail Teterin wrote: = = MT>Andrey suggests, the new (supposedly -- corrected) koi8-r fonts be = MT>installed there in addition to koi8-u and/or koi8-c. Although, this will = MT>be the most standard compliant, I find it wasteful of the diskspace and = MT>X-server memory, because: = = Given that fonts/cyrillic is only about 1MByte and that you can control = which of the fonts get loaded with the fontpath and compared to other = bloat I see no waste here. Actually, 1Mb of _dead weight_ is plenty in my book. Having all three fontsets will triple that... = MT> b) New applications should be encouraged to use the more complete = MT> charsets such as koi8-u or koi8-c instead = = The problem for me as a user is, that I don't have much influence on = what an application does. When I load a webpage, that claims to need = koi8-r, then I expect my browser to find a koi8-r font. I really don't = want to fiddle with X or browser options to get the page displayed. You are absolutely right. This is the problem my point 2) was trying to address. Install fonts.aliases files, which will provide the same functionality the stock XFree86 install currently provides. No web-pages use those characters (nothing does, for the characters were not implemented in the versions of the fonts currently coming with XFree86). = RFC-1489 is not marked as obsolete, so people will countinue to use it = and, honestly, I don't see a reason to remove support even if it would = be obsoleted. FreeBSD, generally, removes parts considered obsolete -- be that drivers for obsolete hardware (pre-IDE disks) or software packages (uucp). In the later case, the removed software is turned into a port... Marking the RFC-1489 is what I'm beginning to campaing for :-) = I don't see any reason to be too religious about this font matter. The "religious" overtones come from the frustration over the ignorance, with which some people equate "Cyrillic" and "Russian" (BTW, "Soviet" and "Russian" is a related problem). The alphabet was created in the 9th century BC, apparently, in Monrovia -- about three centuries before Moscow was founded (and pretty far from its future location too)... = Make a couple of options to the ports in question so that individual = users, who are short on disk space are able to not install one or the = other font. Or make three ports for koi8-[ruc]. Of course. The "religious battle" is over what is to be the _default_ install. Andrey wants it to always include the modern koi8-r fonts, so the FIDO newsgroups can be read. He claims, doing otherwise would cause standard breakage totally ignoring the fact, that the standard is currently broken (the X11's koi8-r fonts are not, in fact, koi8-r) and no new breakage is being proposed. I think, koi8-c should be the default with aliases pointing to koi8-u and koi8-r. Whoever is currently installing the new koi8-r fonts through Andrey's port(s) will still be able to do that if they require it. But the casual users will not have to install all three. Maxim already made fonts/cyrillic be filled with koi8-u with the aliases for koi8-r. He did not know, I guess, about koi8-c. Neither did I until you told me :-) -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message
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