From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 09:35:56 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9B7B00; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:35:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49528B07; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:35:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.82) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1XYAtV-002nYL-Nv>; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:35:53 +0200 Received: from g225003129.adsl.alicedsl.de ([92.225.3.129] helo=hermann.walstatt.dynvpn.de) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.82) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1XYAtV-002k6g-Jm>; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:35:53 +0200 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:35:10 +0200 From: "O. Hartmann" To: Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: WiFi 802.11/ac PCIe supported adaptor Message-ID: <20140928113510.452dc9f0.ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20140927143830.1d25968f.ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20140927222208.GA20243@e-new.0x20.net> <20140928080643.1b5c991b.ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <5427A8C5.1010703@freebsd.org> Organization: FU Berlin X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/sRNZ25aD4.NocVxRr.Vmq0K"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Originating-IP: 92.225.3.129 X-ZEDAT-Hint: A Cc: FreeBSD Current , Nathan Whitehorn X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:35:56 -0000 --Sig_/sRNZ25aD4.NocVxRr.Vmq0K Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:44:19 -0700 Kevin Oberman schrieb: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Nathan Whitehorn > wrote: >=20 > > > > On 09/27/14 23:06, O. Hartmann wrote: > > > >> Am Sun, 28 Sep 2014 00:22:09 +0200 > >> Lars Engels schrieb: > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 02:38:30PM +0200, O. Hartmann wrote: > >>> > >>>> I'm looking for a replacemnt for my 802.11g WiFi PCIe adaptor card a= nd > >>>> want to > >>>> replace it with an 802.11ac adaptor. > >>>> > >>>> Since I made very bad experiences with CURRENT and support of modest > >>>> modern hardware > >>>> (Haswell CPU/Intel 7260 DualBand WiFi NIC), I'd like to ask here fi= rst. > >>>> > >>>> I found this PCIe adaptor card attractive: > >>>> > >>>> GigaByte Gigabyte GC-WB867D-I > >>>> > >>>> I can not find ad hoc the WLAN chip used on that specific card, but > >>>> maybe someone has > >>>> experiences with that litte board. > >>>> > >>> FreeBSD doensn't support 802.11ac, yet. > >>> > >> I'm bitter aware of that. This OS doesn't support the chipsets, even if > >> they provide also > >> 11a/g/n. > >> > >> We have at our department now a bunch of Lenovo hardware, with Intels > >> 7260 chipset. The > >> laptops are now runninmg Ubuntu 14.0X something which obviously suppor= ts > >> the WiFi chip. > >> I'm the last man standing with FreeBSD on my private Lenovo :-( > >> > > > > This is a serious problem. I'm about ready to install Linux on my laptop > > as well just to get a usable system. Some kind of funding directed to a > > willing developer would be hugely valuable for the usability of the > > operating system on recent hardware. This is probably more important ev= en > > than Haswell graphics since without a driver, Haswell is merely slow, > > whereas networking is completely broken. > > -Nathan >=20 >=20 > While I don't yet have need of it and probably won't any time soon, > Haswell support is becoming critical. It is getting more and more difficu= lt > to get boards with pre-Haswell processors, especially for laptops. It is > still pretty easy to get supported WiFi cards for both desktops and > laptops. I feel Haswell is getting to be a critical issue. >=20 > VESA is available for Haswell systems, but it is very slow and too often > the BIOS support of VESA is poor. Vendors want text mode for boot and suc= h, > but really have little interest in graphics as Intel has good native > Windows drivers for them.Still waiting for Lenovo to fix VESA for my old > Sandy Bridge laptop. I used VESA, which was badly broken, for almost a ye= ar > waiting for KMS support, though I did get a recent BIOS update and have n= ot > tried VESA on it. > -- > R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired > E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Some notes from my side. I have personally a i3-3220 IvyBridge based server with iGPU HD2500, which = doesn't work properly on CURRENT and gets messed up with EFI and vt(). The screen is dar= k after loading i915kms and the reason having a highres console is at hand. This is= two year old hardware! This server is now getting a new XEON CPU (same board, but with a= professional CPU i5-122X v2 with a P4000 iGPU). At another site I work for there are pla= ns obtaining also such toy-XEONs for power consumption reasons and the iGPU play an impo= rtant role here. And those systems are due to government funding for the next couple o= f years definitely NOT outdated hardware from the past, they will be Haswell. So wh= at now? As far as I can say: maintaining a FreeBSD based server system on hardware that ne= eds more than one single compromise is cost-ineffective. I hate to judge things in terms = of cost-effectiveness, but the time, I spent now getting a crap iGPU on my lap= top to work or that on that IvyBridge is unaffordable! The same is now with the laptops. Intels iGPU is getting stronger and stron= ger and combined with their CPUs, there is rarely need for a dedicated GPU. We use = OpenCL a lot, so GPUs are welcome, even in notebooks. But not for FreeBSD, since OpenCL s= eems to be Linux-domain only. Anyway, the new bunch of laptops we order is not the cra= p from yesterday. Since my last Dell had to last for at least four years, I will o= rder top of the line hardware now - and I'm willing to wait for some weeks, two months = with interim solutions until FreeBSD would support the hardware we obtain, but compared = to the past I see chance. Not all of us want Linux, some use PC-BSD, some FreeBSD. The pi= cture changes now. Networking wasn't an issue for me for years, but now, sitting on a pile of = neat new hardware of which FreeBSD can not make any serious use, let me rethink. Luc= kily, The Lenovo laptops have a mini PCIe WiFi NIC - if I'm willing to follow FreeBSD= s agony I'm able to swap the NIC with a piece of hardware that is supported. But it is = additional cost. I would happily do so - if there wouldn't be Linux support! I tried U= buntu 14 something, and the WiFi NIC was recognized and was fully operational. Even = the iGPU AND the Optimus nVidia GT740M is usable, although Linux has also severe problem= s with the Optimus technology, but somehow there are solutions. But having alternative= s and drivers for months out in a concurrent system like Linux arises some questions the = answeres I can't fathom.=20 Well, I hope that there is some solution out. I found in the FreeBSD Forum = an entry from last year talking about Intel's dual band WiFi NIC 7260's support by the iw= l() driver. I never saw this driver and it is almost a year since the post was made. I do= not need necessarily 802.11ac or 802.11n support, I would be happy having 802.11g su= pport checking emails or checkin/checkout texts and code via WiFi where no wire= is available. And please allow me a final note here. I was always told (or even thaught!) that FreeBSD hasn't the fundings or th= e manpower to solve problems like KMS, driver and so on. I guess several Linux distributi= ons face a similar problem, but somehow the manufactureres emmit drivers or support. I= was aware of that guy that was payed by Intel to develop OpenSource NIC drivers, wasn't = his name Vogel? What happened to him? If FreeBSD is pushed more and more in the back= ground, then it is also due to a bad politics. nVidia, for instance, offers a BLOB for t= heir GPUs. Yeah! But no OpenCL support. AMD offers nothing but promises and their effo= rts regarding opensource drivers is a pity. nVidia "just informed Nouveau" (so the headli= ne at Phoronix, if I'm not wrong), that they now make some new restrictions abou= t their harware. Well, FreeBSD hasn't this problem, we do not haven even xf86-video= -nouveau in the ports due to the lack of functionality in the kernel. The fact is: unde= r these circumstances, FreeBSD is UNUSABLE on some sort of recent hardware and even= opensource drivers are not an option anymore. I can not wait a year until I can use the full potential of the hardware we= purchased, so hopefully I can run FBSD then in a virtual box ontop of Linux as long I nee= d it. --Sig_/sRNZ25aD4.NocVxRr.Vmq0K Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUJ9ZUAAoJEOgBcD7A/5N8tm0H/3EaEYq1zuYICYcs6aZ2K2oG lmOELX0TXZU+8MG9udZ/wV+URg8cVkxGHJiV1mpYEN03kb0bfri1ZjNmGRNQsrvZ dRnfobtiSYBst0vbUj7OYWu/uPopTK424/oE535N2fimM0/qOAXlDOoSUYAG4ZRL jyoJM6AaR9WHn2qxdYt5ijUPtixhf1g4RCTXLLLz+cCEFFAyzv/S/Epe726JUd40 XxPGg2/ILIGGfJpJQoBOYAaS1PFXCQNa1wX2eo8XL77TGRmq0zvYF3tpWcH2dgFK Cyk5V+Dd75wMw2dYQcint7ffz7dhUTiriM1TKDCi2hI1zM8a9NU1zElcDHslYjY= =GHq3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/sRNZ25aD4.NocVxRr.Vmq0K--