Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:17:13 +1100 From: Michael Wardle <michael.wardle@adacel.com> To: Wouter Van Hemel <wouter@pair.com> Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" <swear@blarg.net>, parv <parv_@yahoo.com>, Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr>, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> <u3adu3bgb3.du3@localhost.localdomain> <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> <1014270449.303.117.camel@cocaine>
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Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 06:06, Michael Wardle wrote: [...] >>Can you think of a sensible reason why kilobyte = 1000 bytes is not a >>good idea? >> > > Standards are a tool to facilitate communication, and shouldn't be > considered a goal. If they do not improve understanding, or worse, make > things less comprehensible, then I see no reason to adapt them. A lack of comprehensibility already exists: kilo always meant x1000 (except perhaps inside the USA and UK, where SI is not the usual system) even long before computing came along. If "KiB" and "MiB" started appearing on computer systems (they seldom do at present, as the proposal/standard is only a recent one), one would expect the user to wonder what it means and to find out. This is the sort of thing that would appear in a release notes or an introductory section. When/if the system started to appear in systems and documentation, there would certainly be articles and discussion in newspapers, technical magazines, and web sites. In GUI applications, the system could be explained in the online help system, and/or links added over the symbol text (i.e. make "KiB" a hyperlink or have a tooltip). > If everyone uses 'abc', why care about some far-away entity coming up with > rules that nobody really cares about? I agree that mass-acceptance is quite important, however there *is* no system at the moment. It is definately not true to say that "everyone" uses "K", "KB", or any one symbol. (As I suggest further down! :-)) > (I'm not directly implying that's the case; I'm merely questioning the > purpose of it all.) > > If we decide to comply, all occurrences in the code should be changed too, > as not to create a bigger chaos. We simply can't use KiB in our > documentation, and ignore the difference with the real-life topics we are > documenting. This is a decision that can't be taken lightly... Surely not > for something that might never find steady ground in the 'real world' (no > matter how convenient or correct). Quite true, but most occurences I've seen in the code actually use "K", not "KB", "KiB", or something else! I believe this helps to illustrate the lack of agreement and uniformity that currently exists! > If we decide not to comply, but to at least be consistent about this, > well, it's just a matter of agreeing on _something_. > > Whatever we do, there should be consistency. > > (I have a feeling this discussion isn't even remotely over yet...) > > >>Would I be correct in assuming that you do not use (and therefore are >>not familiar with) SI? >> >> > > That's not the most important thing here. How can we expect, getting > confused ourselves, to write clear documentation to possibly less > technical people? In most of the world, SI is the everyday system of measurement. There have even been gradual attempts to move towards SI in those English speaking countries that have not yet changed to SI (the USA and the UK), and many technical persons (such as engineers) within these countries are now beginning to use SI, as it is an international standard, and is more conducive to simple mathematical manipulation. Those who do use SI (or are trying to learn it) *will* be (and are!) confused when computing uses SI terminology to mean something different. > And on a side note, the documentation should follow the system; in case of > KiB adaptation, this should start in de code, and only _then_ we can adapt > the docs to reflect the system. Well, it has to start somewhere. What is important is that the changes are made over as short a possible period of time, and that the documentation accurately reflects the system, so changes would be best made as close to simultaneously as possible. Are you saying this because you think the core code team won't like the proposal? :-P > <my humble opinion> > >>>The disk drive people are just wrong; >>> >>No, they are quite correct, however they are in the minority. >> >>I am not aware of any official body that has standardized kilobyte as >>meaning 1024 bytes. It may have been incorrectly assumed that kilobyte >>meant 1024 bytes, as the difference was deemed insignificant, however at >>no point could a kilobyte have been correctly referred to as 1024 bytes. >>(Same for megabyte, gigabyte, and so on.) >> >>Please point to some real evidence (preferably a standard) that proves >>the assertion (1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes) correct. >> >> > > I'd like to say it again: that doesn't matter, in my eyes. We are _not_ > the ones who come up (or should come up) with these regulations; our 'job' > is writing documenation that's easy to understand. Very true. Point taken. At present, confusion exists. The only way to remove this confusion is to produce a standard (preferably one that complements existing standards, rather than redefines or contradicts them) and for that standard to be widely-used. > Whichever choice leads to that; regardless of SI. Sure. Bye for now. :-) -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message
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