From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 26 14:14: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC05B37B943 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:13:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14695; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <38DE8B4D.5DAE0740@gorean.org> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:12:29 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0322 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: On "intelligent people" and "dangers to BSD" References: <38DCC0D3.99AB6F28@originative.co.uk> <38DB8D34.1A750C81@originative.co.uk> <20000325104927.B234@parish> <38DCC0D3.99AB6F28@originative.co.uk> <20000325222749.D234@parish> <3.0.6.32.20000326005810.00a9dd00@mail85.pair.com> <20000326121505.D234@parish> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 12:58:10AM -0600, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > At 22:27 25-03-2000 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >Perhaps if those who preached about civil liberties focussed on the > > >rights of victims more than the rights of criminals we may get > > >somewhere. > > > > The victims have the right to carry firearms. Unfortunately, most people do > > not carry them, many would not even know how to use them. Had the victims > > been armed and trained, most of them would not have been victimized. > > > > Criminals would be less likely to commit violent crimes if they expected > > most people to be armed and trained. > > > > IOW it would be a deterrent? Somehow I don't think so. Actually this has been proven fairly conclusively already. Florida and Virginia have very liberal concealed carry laws. They also have two of the lowest rates of violent crime in the US. Recently there was a well publicized wave of crime against tourists in Florida, especially europeans and japanese. They asked the criminals why they were attacking the tourists. The simple answer was that they were the least likely to have guns. FWIW, I agree completely that you want the people who have and carry guns to be well trained in their use. But the current thought that disarming the law abiding citizens will have any effect on "gun violence" is simply ridiculous. The people that are using guns for crimes are ALREADY breaking the law. More laws, and disarming the public won't change that. Doug -- "So, the cows were part of a dream that dreamed itself into existence? Is that possible?" asked the student incredulously. The master simply replied, "Mu." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message