Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:12:51 -0700 From: "Gilbert Gong" <ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu> To: "Bill Moran" <wmoran@iowna.com>, "Garance A Drosihn" <drosih@rpi.edu> Cc: "Wes Peters" <wes@softweyr.com>, <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <00d001c1098d$79b183c0$190f000a@ggongws> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <p0510100bb7710cdeaa17@[128.113.24.47]> <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com>
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I'm also interested in helping out with the installer. I have also just read Jordan's message (at http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=77877+0+archive/2000/freebsd-ha ckers/20000917.freebsd-hackers as referenced in another email) and here is how I see it. #2 cannot happen without #1 happening first. Jordan outlines a number of underlying problems which simply writing a new installer, in terms of just a new frontend to what sysinstall currently does, cannot solve. Many of the underlying structures and mechanisms for distribution and packaging must be modified to resolve those problems. These problems are generally the same as the ones other people are bringing up, or are needed changes before other types of changes can be made (though some, such as adding "partition magic" style partition sizing could be added without these underlying changes). I think, from a "will be accepted by the community" perspective, what has to happen is the old installer must evolve, little by little, into something which is more modular and can be easily replaced or interfaced into by other alternate installers. As it becomes more modular, it will be easier to change some of the underlying mechanisms. As other people have said, the installer is the first exposure of new people to FreeBSD. That means it is really important, and therefore a lot of us will care about what happens to it. Major overhauls are not going to go over easily (think bikeshed, only instead of what color to paint the bikeshed, we are discussing what color to paint the large centerpiece at the entrance to the world headquarters). Gilbert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Moran" <wmoran@iowna.com> To: "Garance A Drosihn" <drosih@rpi.edu> Cc: "Wes Peters" <wes@softweyr.com>; <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > *sigh* this has gotten way off track somehow. Looking back, I'm > probably primarily to blame. > > The fact is: *I* *AM* interested in replacing or helping out with > an effort to replace/improve sysinstall. However, there are two > critical things I must understand if I am to do anything truely > productive along this line: > > 1. Should sysinstall be fixed or replaced. > 2. What needs done to fix or improve sysinstall. > > Now, I've gotten several excellent suggestions with regard to #2. > If any of my replies to these seem like arguments, then that's > just a part of my inability to communicate, as what I'm trying to > do is *understand* what exactly needs done. If I only change what > *I* want, it might not be terribly useful overall (as can be seen > by my divergence from other's opinions) You make an excellent point > of this in your second paragraph below. > > What I was really interested in getting answered was #1, as it > was suggested by Terry Lambert that "sysinstall must go" (don't > remember his exact words) I have no desire to start repairing > something if a complete replacement is in order. > > The fact of the matter is that I don't understand the problem > enough to fix it. It may seem strange to people that I'm more > interested in understanding this problem than in fixing problems > that I already understand. Well, I always have been a little > strange ... > > Personally, I would appreciate it if folks would *not* back > off from this conversation, since I'm acutally beginning to > understand, thanks to the tireless efforts of many who already > understand. > > -Bill > > Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > The main problem I have seen with this discussion is that the > > current partitioning program works well for you (Bill). Every > > time anyone suggests something, you reply that it seems frivolous > > to you, or that there is no other installer that you personally > > have used which does a better job. We're not trying to suggest > > things to make partitioning easier for YOU, we're suggesting > > things which would make it nicer/easier/friendlier for US, or > > people that we deal with. > > > > Pretty much every time I have used the disk-partitioning software > > for freebsd I have hated it. The *reason* I hate it changes from > > run-to-run, but I've never been particularly happy with it. It > > is clear that you've had better luck with it than I have. I think > > I'll just leave it at that, instead of trying to interest you in > > making some changes to it. I do not mean this as a sarcastic jab, > > I am just making the observation that the current setup seems to > > work well for you, and thus you're not going to be as interested > > in changing it as we might have hoped. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
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