From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Jan 3 10:55:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8E9C9DACB for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 10:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-x22f.google.com (mail-yw0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BB691E67 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 10:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yw0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id a10so285398546ywa.3 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 02:55:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UK6kbkWxE7ejI7LhUZfzZcwTmkPEgXdxckxJB9AiOvM=; b=KZUPI+TKCWtNW6I5rXQME9+bNgds9ldfnfenm5KFg3cZ8yvUQe8/hfI7yczFI/z4/D kbaILQSu/JT2cfM3vPt3v5sIvpW0MP/6zaeLTU/z/ToKUOh/K5I5Kzx/zbkjTSy1yf6+ fJrXW49Mg1/UnIWn6tgWtlLhlr3uLhxbm/x6lx2yRlLrksh+e0GWj1kyxVCLpEH+bdXs TejzZjh++PqtxTKMjSFnZjstsPa7MRT4cnxU+3Pu4/LqQkekirA6koYZli/Y7aveFLaY tUjzIR78Mr0HsZS1NLx42/B/NV5DpKIEPbNisfoJCkexd+Y1RcMLcuOODdft7n80RqOn ozSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UK6kbkWxE7ejI7LhUZfzZcwTmkPEgXdxckxJB9AiOvM=; b=ggxTeaYDom2OsY2uJkEHkIY+/IctCljXy15IFiyPFGh9+pBB3GoVy8lri32A6oFb/F riKM6/z6pZDRWpPpfQbn5iAObjOCCDZzbRKlf1kOsuJaxl+O0D5qbWqMvoFgs6jpFsxi 71GSYgu2xO2Jgh8hBPWosvDOF0eKOqf20NE4I5N1npE3bA3Duy+CbIGoQ5sw2c5t/cyS HPqiU/5hKKBnJgbFE6n1iQ+RvVm/fMcGMasAYtT21iV2CvU8PfZXtk4UixWTf+MrfdrQ HXp7SiHdm+SlB25jWOMc7NvFbO7aopARLR2i1w9Ep+QhJG00de/Rn7cTJiYHeDHsgidR LNLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIU9L46kTxqTHRAE1ut2/E/ZkBjlKvNQU6Lw9Bv8wF64ES8nqNkDhbyPXQETL/vHhJURGdt5knvAUpB9Q== X-Received: by 10.13.214.81 with SMTP id y78mr57067958ywd.4.1483440956479; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 02:55:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Johannes Lundberg Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 10:55:46 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: current freebsd graphics stack To: blubee blubeeme Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 10:55:57 -0000 Isn't that the way it was done before and is done on DragonFly? Don't forget, linuxkpi also supports AMD and Gallium drivers.... It is a complex subject.. in a perfect world we'd have unlimited time and resources and FreeBSD would be in every man's hand :) Good luck! On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 18:50 blubee blubeeme wrote: > It's understandable and I actually came across your twitter account a long > time ago before I joined this list. > > I did look at intels open source gpu drivers. I will be attempting after a > smaller project to get it up and running on BSD without using the linux > wrappers. Crazy, I know but nothing tried nothing done and I'm stubborn > enough to do the work now to have an easier time later. > > This is a pretty complex subject and it does touch so many different > things that are all trying to change, the complexity is pretty high. > > We'll see if we can sort that out. > > Best, > Owen > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Johannes Lundberg > wrote: > > Hi > > Not sure about the other graphics drivers but porting a driver like > drm/i915 for Intel graphics is a massive undertaking (look at the source > code from Intel!). Intel develops their open source driver for Linux and > having linuxkpi reduces porting efforts for us from a full time job to a > few weekends / year. Remember how we had to wait 5 years for Haswell > support? That's the only reason I had to run Linux for several years > instead of FreeBSD (and a lot of development time went into Linux just > because of that, wasted). linuxkpi and friends will be optional, you don't > have to use if you don't want to. > > I'm all for a BSDish system with X & Wayland compositors and GUIs and the > whole package. But, who's gonna have the time to develop/maintain it? What > happens when we no longer can run Qt/GTK applications and only a small > subset of BSD-friendly apps? > > I agree with what your saying, but we have to be realistic. Adding > optional wrapper/support in the kernel plus a thin userland layer like udev > or epoll etc, does not "taint" FreeBSD in anyway, rather it allows us to > use newer hardware and a larger set of software with minimal porting > efforts. > > On this project? Not many, we need a lot more. > > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:15 PM, blubee blubeeme > wrote: > > Hi Johannes > > I was asking about the current state of those three main items. > > I just looked at the linuxkpi thing and it's a wrapper around the linux > version of DRM but isn't DRM a open standard, if we keep chasing down linux > the more they move their stuff into their kernel the harder it will become > to maintain these things on FreeBSD even though it might be more work > upfront? > > It seems like evdev is the same story, xorg was moving to libinput, I > believe. > > Is there a reason why we have to wrap the linux things and why couldn't we > just write our own that can then be tied closely to the BSD kernel while > still sticking to the standards. > > To be honest I don't have the slightest idea how massive GEM, KMS and DRM > are just yet but it seems like adding a wrapper around another OS kernel > into that mix can only go bad. > > How many people are working on the project with you at the moment? > > Best, > Owen > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Johannes Lundberg > wrote: > > Hi Owen > > I've been helping out with drm, i915, linuxkpi and evdev in the kernel. > > For userland I'm working on Wayland-related stuff. > > You can check my twitter (@johalun) or this mailing list for my earlier > posts about how to use this work. > > Sorry for asking but exactly what is your question now again? > > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 16:58 blubee blubeeme wrote: > > Howdy > > > > Is there anyone on this list that works on the graphics stack for FreeBSD? > > > > Watching this video: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZI4pAvK_RY&spfreload=5 > > > > from a few years ago and what I've gathered so far the new x is getting a > > major redesign and a lot of code is moving into the kernel. > > > > You can take a look at the attached images to get the tl;dr of the talk. > > > > http://imgur.com/a/Ek4fq > > > > My question, is anyone here whose doing graphics stack work done any work > > on implementing GEM, KMS, DRM in the FreeBSD kernel. > > > > Even a port of the linux version would be somewhere to start. > > > > Best, > > Owen > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > >