Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:12:37 -0500 From: Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> To: Ernie Luzar <luzar722@gmail.com> Cc: jail@freebsd.org, "Michael W. Lucas" <mwlucas@michaelwlucas.com> Subject: Re: preferred jail management tool Message-ID: <CAHieY7TWDRjE5hWoo1-oQRKHKvxEDbKYO4RHP20F=gCcbNH3DA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54C7958B.40007@gmail.com> References: <CACfj5vKjiQHsy9VbOKFFcrBpyr3dmbkOOxTxCYhSyZrnrjRiaQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHieY7TyxzC0aK-ErY2EbCmTJPykk_9G7Gd=CrZ9yxQ-77PynA@mail.gmail.com> <20150127012347.GA4940@lonesome.com> <20150127141239.V77290@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <54C7958B.40007@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Ernie Luzar <luzar722@gmail.com> wrote: > Ian Smith wrote: > >> On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 19:23:48 -0600, Mark Linimon wrote: >> [Sean Chittenden wrote:] >> > > > For years I've used and endorsed ezjail, but as stated, it is >> depreciated. >> > > Hmm, there's no notation at >> > http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portoverview.py?category= >> sysutils&portname=ezjail , >> > nor in the Makefile AFAICT. >> > > > > For a book, excluding ezjail would exclude a huge portion of >> the user base >> > > > and seems like it would hurt credibility given its dominance as the >> > > > preferred tool for jail administration. >> >> I agree with this; given its history and installed base it certainly >> deserves some coverage with at least references to its documentation, as a >> precursor to more recently emerging, likely more comprehensive tools. >> >> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:54:50PM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote: >> > > Maybe is something obvious to the more technical crowd but as a user >> what >> > > does "depreciated" mean in this context? >> > > Really the word most people use is . >> > > It can mean any number of things: >> > > - it no longer works due to changes in other software >> > - it has been replaced by something else >> > - the author is no longer interested in maintaining it >> > > and so forth. >> > > I don't know the answer in this case. >> >> As Alejandro went on to point out, depreciate means (ref Concise Oxford) >> 'Diminish in value' or 'Lower market price of; reduce purchasing power of >> (money); disparage, belittle' (L. pretiare f. pretium price), while >> deprecate means 'Plead against; express wish against or disapproval of (L. >> precari pray). Different, with some overlap regarding belittlement. >> >> The former term is prominent in Joe's http://jail-primer.sourceforge.net/ >> >> cheers, Ian >> >> >> > [...] > to using the jail.conf file before 11.0 is published. This was pointed out > in the original post, but which the readers choose to ignore. > I just re-read the op and there is no mention of the jail.conf issue, unless you are referring to another thread. I have in fact read the deprecation message you are referring to but have been confident (perhaps naively) that is a transitory problem and will get fixed eventually. > I hope the ezjail author takes this thread as incentive to keep his > utility up to date and not let it die due to changing software in Freebsd > base code. All I am doing is pointing out the facts here. > > Why wouldn't it be so? After all it's been around for a while and has adapted well IMHO. As pointed out I have used it since FBSD 7 and hardly have had any issues. Of course mine is not an expert opinion, just the point of view of a regular user. > I though it was important for the guy who wants to write a book on jails > to know the facts so he can make an informed decision > about which tools to write about, To me it would seem pretty silly to > invest the time to write about a jail tool that at this time > in its development is "deprecated" / "depreciated" by circumstances out of > its control. > > In my opinion any port that does not include complete documentation in > its man pages is next to useless and many people agree. Ezjail man pages > lack documentation on 98 percent of its functions. I do not see HOW a book > on jails can recommend a tool with > such poor documentation. Doing so would put the creditability of every > thing written in the book in doubt and NO author wants to get > mud in their face for failing to completely understand the unpublished > background of the subject targeted to write about. > > Not sure what you are talking about here. I started using EzJail 8 years ago just by reading the project Web page and I use man ezjail-admin _all the time_ (my memory is pretty bad so I use this man page constantly). Not sure what the 98% missing functions are. There is basically a single command and at least all the functions I use are in that single man page. > In a nut shell, since 9.1 jails have been a moving target as the > implementation of jail(8) replaces the rc.d/jail method. Hopefully with > 11.0 the jail target will stop moving. This means that most of the jail > ports dealing with Releases 8.x, and 9.x, > are obsolete for 11.0. > > You mean that the jail features of the core OS will make the administration as easy as EzJail (and other such tools) and make them obsolete? [...] > When it comes to "deprecated" / "depreciated". Nit picking over the letter > "i" in the spelling of the word is crazy. > You all know Freebsd meaning and its not what the dictionary says. > My dictionary shows both words mean the same thing, one being the USA > spelling and the other being the British spelling. > Enough said about spelling. > > This was not my intention at all. I was under the impression that the intended word was actually "depreciated" (as in losing value over time) giving the benefit of the doubt to the OP that the intention was not to spread unnecessary FUD to the EzJail user base. If in fact as you say 11.0 will make tools like this obsolete (not just an EzJail thing) then the word is perfectly used in it's context and is not a spelling issue. If this is so, can you please expand a little on how 11.0 will make tools like this obsolete, or at least that is what I could interpret from your message. Thanks, -- Alejandro Imass
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