From nobody Fri Nov 17 16:11:35 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SX6YT2QTHz51JcF; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 19:34:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca) Received: from doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (doctor.nl2k.ab.ca [204.209.81.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SX6YS6Vb6z3PNL; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 19:34:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from doctor by doctor.nl2k.ab.ca with local (Exim 4.97 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1r41RP-00000000EBT-10HC; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:11:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:11:35 -0700 From: The Doctor To: Olivier Certner Cc: Glen Barber , John Baldwin , FreeBSD Release Engineering Team , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] Quick update to 14.0-RELEASE schedule Message-ID: References: <20231114203654.GB52320@FreeBSD.org> <20231116003030.GO1307@FreeBSD.org> <1965344.ruP0FAUDoQ@ravel> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1965344.ruP0FAUDoQ@ravel> X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6171, ipnet:204.209.81.0/24, country:CA] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SX6YS6Vb6z3PNL On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 11:00:07AM +0100, Olivier Certner wrote: > Hi Glen, > > > I also agree we cannot prevent people from downloading the images, > > installers, whatever before the announcement. That is the lovely race > > condition with which we have to live at the moment. > > Yes, and given that, I don't think you did anything wrong. > > It seems that the race is the same for freebsd-update(8), according to "The Doctor". But maybe in this case it is easier to fix, perhaps if installing the metadata signaling the new release to it can be delayed, by contrast with big files containing the actual data (I don't know how freebsd-update(8) works, so this is just a guess). > > > The alternative would be to say nothing at all. > > I really hope you and re@ will never choose this way. > > > Either way, it is a productivity, communication drain. It is > > a lose-lose situation no matter how one looks at it given the above > > context. We either get chastised for being "too open" into insights > > delaying an official announcement, or for being "not open enough" when > > there is silence from RE when a release does not meet its scheduled > > announcement date. > > IMHO, a delay should always be announced (perhaps unless it's only a few days). If it is too hard to decide on the right level of details, then only mention that some (potential or verified) problem is being looked upon, but don't let that prevent you from communicating. > > As for people saying that they have already installed the "release", I'd suggest to have some text on the website (https://www.freebsd.org/releng/ perhaps) explaining that images on mirrors can appear in advance of release announcements and that they should not be considered as official until the official mail is sent, and just kindly point them to it. I hope this can contribute to at least attenuating the drain you're experiencing. > > Regards. > > -- > Olivier Certner > > just a suggestion for the future is that to have some sort of gpg/gpg check in freebsd-update . -- Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising! Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen Lest we forget 11 Nov 2023 Beware https://mindspring.com