From owner-freebsd-net Tue Jan 23 21: 4:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4032937B400 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 34A21575B7; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:04:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:04:29 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: "Bruce R. Montague Brucem" Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: virtual hypervisor clusters Message-ID: <20010123230429.C88688@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , "Bruce R. Montague Brucem" , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200101240302.TAA00860@mx.cruzio.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200101240302.TAA00860@mx.cruzio.com>; from brucem@mx.cruzio.com on Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 07:02:15PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 07:02:15PM -0800, Bruce R. Montague Brucem scribbled: | This is a speculative "freebsd-cluster" newbie type | question. I hope "-net" is appropriate. | | A couple of us, over beer, were pondering clusters, | virtual machines, VM/370 hypervisors/networks, | emulators, JIT's, jails, dummynet, netgraph, etc.. You want the IBM virtual machine stuff... | Does anyone have a way to run multiple PC emulators, | each running FreeBSD (of course) on a single FreeBSD | machine? And then cluster the virtual machines using | a virtual network driver/simulator? The intent here | is to literally run multiple TCP/IP stacks (albeit | at non-real-time simulation rates) and simulate a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^Slower or faster? Look on merit.edu or IETF archives, they funded projects like this before. | wide variety of media in the ``network'' virtual | device on the real machine. That is, the typical | network research problem (or VM wannabe). You wish to emulate a real life network within one single computer. Having too many nodes would effectively forkbomb yourself. I have seen a course in TCP/IP protocol design that does this with their home grown code. I will ask them if they can allow the code to be released. | For this to actually work at any semi-realistic | speed, the PC emulators would probably have to be | truly `hypervisor-like', that is, basically run | non-privileged code pretty much at regular instruction | rates, and just take the emulation hit for non-privileged | code/operations. The 32-bit x86 is still probably | a good way from true virtualizability(?), but... You can improve jail enough to do this. Or you can implement many many netgraph nodes that does the basic TCP/IP protocols. | Have any network research/simulation folks done such | things using PC VMs? What is the best performance | that has been achieved using PC emulators capable | of running FreeBSD? Not with PC, I have only seen Sparc/MIPS/RISC/6000 platforms with high-end computing power. And the reason was stated earlier (re: forkbomb). | Any relevant advice appreciated, however, only open | source solutions are likely helpful, other than as | existence proofs. I know several commercial solutions exist, other than that, no can do. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message