From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 27 06:20:54 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDB937B5; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfred@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f05:b76::196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D110B71; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfred@freebsd.org) Received: from AlfredMacbookAir.local (c-76-21-10-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.21.10.192]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A8D8341F87D; Tue, 26 May 2015 23:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55656245.3000205@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 23:20:53 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein Organization: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "K. Macy" , Bryan Drewery CC: Shawn Webb , Pedro Giffuni , Oliver Pinter , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASLR work into -HEAD ? References: <555CADB6.202@FreeBSD.org> <555CC369.1030206@FreeBSD.org> <555FBE83.6080103@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 06:20:54 -0000 On 5/24/15 1:43 PM, K. Macy wrote: > On May 22, 2015 4:41 PM, "Bryan Drewery" wrote: >> On 5/20/2015 12:24 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>> My claim is that the majority of "professional" breachers and >>> governments already have ASLR workarounds pre-coded and ready >>> to launch. Finding an exploit is more difficult than beating >>> ASLR so they are not going to hint everyone that they have >>> an exploit until they can take all the linux/windows/MacOSX >>> at the same time. >>> >>> The cost for the NSA and/or anonymous to step on >>> ASLR is zero. > Correct. But who are we really protecting against? If it's the NSA only air > gap will really do. In reality it's just a matter of making the cost of > circumventing protections exceed the value of the data or items being > protected. Locking one's doors and windows doesn't make one's house > impenetrable by any stretch, but it does deter opportunistic passerby. > > Protecting against state overreach is a political matter and shouldn't > factor into whether to invest in deterring lesser malfeasors. > > I'm sorry, but Bryan has it right. The political discussion is a side show. > +1, also having a line item is good. Not having ASLR just makes FreeBSD look derp. DragonFly BSD has an implementation of ASLR based upon OpenBSD's model, added in 2010.[ Microsoft's Windows Vista (released January 2007) and later have ASLR enabled In 2003, OpenBSD became the first mainstream operating system to support partial ASLR In Mac OS X Leopard 10.5 (released October 2007), Apple introduced randomization for system libraries Linux has enabled a weak form of ASLR by default since kernel version 2.6.12 (released June 2005). So basically 1 more week and we can be 10 years behind Linux. :) w00t. -Alfred