From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 18 10:55:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB677106566B; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:55:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F468FC16; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:55:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadi14 with SMTP id i14so337861dad.13 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:55:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tjmhkqMBsJAd+IpHRrq37yEgnEe5VGIqUuQ2DYhVcOI=; b=IVtbsvvOFwD/LELeFoG2tM2GwuWLqp8bOuEvkWNzxw5ovd7zLwepAVfMCOxeFJ8iMv Y8JqOW4+fpgoDvhClllCBT44WXYTe1ZAWFgT4RwlL0V2ozK+BY+lWSew2fJfTrEXa/1w 6Eh16SULopkTyqgy7YcXrX/hkAIc6LlBXYW5Q= Received: by 10.68.115.44 with SMTP id jl12mr42807213pbb.14.1326884118126; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:55:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mozolevsky@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.28.199 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:54:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F16900A.90905@FreeBSD.org> References: <4F15C44F.1030208@freebsd.org> <1326836797.1669.234.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F16019F.2060300@FreeBSD.org> <1326843399.1669.249.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F160B99.1060001@FreeBSD.org> <4F16900A.90905@FreeBSD.org> From: Igor Mozolevsky Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:54:35 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: m_NugLzQNVdgGUhQdcrw2uddbe8 Message-ID: To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:55:19 -0000 On 18 January 2012 09:25, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 18/01/2012 02:16 Igor Mozolevsky said the following: >> Seriously, WTF is the point of having a PR system that allows patches >> to be submitted??! When I submit a patch I fix *your* code (not yours >> personally, but you get my gist). > > Let me pretend that I don't get it. =C2=A0It is as much your code as it i= s mine if > you are a user of FreeBSD. =C2=A0I just happen to have a commit bit at th= is point in > time. Actually that is not true at all, it is in no way "my" code because there is absolutely nothing I can do to change it (evidently, even if I do submit patches ;-) )---I'm, at best, an involved bystander!.. >> No other project requires a >> non-committer to be so ridiculously persistent in order to get a patch >> through. > > There are about 5000 open PRs for FreeBSD base system, maybe more. > There are only a few dozens of active FreeBSD developers. =C2=A0Maybe les= s for any > given particular point in time (as opposed to a period of time). > And dealing with PRs is not always exciting. > Need I continue? Is that because there are so many bugs that need fixing or is it because PRs get ignored/become staled? From the preceding discussion it appears to be more of the latter than the former. While I appreciate the excitement in churning out new "edge" code, pretending that old bugs do not exist will not simply make them go away... In fact, given the large number of PRs (and thus presumably ones containing patches) what are the chances that some devs are trying to reinvent the wheel and write a fix that is already contained within the PR system? Equally, there's probably a large number of PRs that are simply not relevant any more... Throwing toys out of the pram because there's just "too much" stuff to do is really not the answer I'm afraid... -- Igor M. :-)