From nobody Wed Jun 22 03:45:33 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DA08765B9 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 03:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sblachmann@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LSTnT2cHdz4t8t; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 03:46:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sblachmann@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id h23so31408255ejj.12; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:46:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WGO9LJ7euslT6gXYM+/01cRfRTG5KF5vMTo5T7jOH/o=; b=LXR+Eug0mpG0NdAol4ZGf45vZPAfMY9v+90vX6/LJUPiO76Yi0ZmF4Z3yL6WmFzI/x qrTzZCTqs8WF0xjtanWvJcAHxPC8xsM180yoF2ortpWHHzeZBTEEh/oBcRB1VbGVpibS sEIq7zBhqrFDqT7FEsJe7EO4wys5bwdO3LBpWos7dmKGmn+m6pCOZV2Blm2v+0lZHj6i XarbjAihPMIbr7Qh7eZQzsEA932+IqMGI1lmjEnjKgg1a422rdfblUgKPbrQ0AFElR4+ JomWlrKaH3JSRiDes6j/frq0Q4CCq9p41DgpdFMGpkTxJFzS15/+FuIH5FBnYyz6G6S2 z0oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WGO9LJ7euslT6gXYM+/01cRfRTG5KF5vMTo5T7jOH/o=; b=C0DQvT8ozPljP07BufJE129S81DD9wWKqJRaLiitRUZ6VKvg8OJYPyEWvLx0NolHfj bI3P5GR5UHm8M4OIcsvgLEStdQZptXQOJ9Gf/JDlQj3IxOzrGGlBMSiLkMKhSubSOXxt DF26buFBiT8hNhoJHu/kmk44DIPkw7uCFGqLl/Uun6zRoC3gcXn3xpzED7abZD2mSWix xS6/AUfiqlIoYTydZsk+nlq4hyH4GSEVKukL0f5ILnNFoMkJoHcRwlWNPUhpR2+0TYDR i4e7kuy2OFrz+g0gxmKHVZw736bE6BPl5HttrDHDXXHEVofpJgi8oaQ3rQVKZ7iWbJtM z32Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/9RMnpl6ycVlMfBaH6q4Io9kC4+9Lg/pAfUoVRwWa109kbWtU+ +z02kxc+In80tER/5wzB/35NqSUgUNirRDpFnXc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uQXiH8SXwy52sShLZd0RnpLMd/joayqR/958y9e/3TfyKf142DuA4XRJJDE0SQ+i4W7V4vyI0SgUGebWPYFWg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f51:b0:6fe:cf1c:cdbf with SMTP id h17-20020a1709060f5100b006fecf1ccdbfmr1142130ejj.695.1655869563339; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:46:03 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211126160454.3eb827365a02103169ab9adc@bidouilliste.com> <20220621201924.e9b96876c947140ac1f3b7a4@bidouilliste.com> <3d09c86a-9840-f8bf-4725-8098d958a01d@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> <202206211901.25LJ1uBd067376@critter.freebsd.dk> <20220622044923.6e2fac81c1e8205872d9de11@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <20220622044923.6e2fac81c1e8205872d9de11@bidouilliste.com> From: Stefan Blachmann Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 05:45:33 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reasons for keeping sc(4) and libvgl ? To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: Ed Maste , Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e06cb05e2012dd5" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4LSTnT2cHdz4t8t X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=LXR+Eug0; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sblachmann@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sblachmann@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.05 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.913]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62f:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.965]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000001e06cb05e2012dd5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I would kindly ask to stop pushing for removal of sc. At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before removal of sc should be considered at all: 1. Currently vt BREAKS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video cards, which just work fine with sc 2. vt does not support DPMS 3. plenty other lesser bugs Both things are valid reasons why many people - including me - reject using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would factually downgrade the computers' capabilities and energy efficiency. On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -0400 > Ed Maste wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > > > > > > But the operative word there is "still", isn't it ? > > > > > > There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing is > there ? > > > > Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support > to vt. > > > > I don't think so. > 1/ It's useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machines > produced in the last 5 (10?) years do > 2/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate > driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver > will reduce power consumption on most machines. > > -- > Emmanuel Vadot > > --0000000000001e06cb05e2012dd5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would kindly ask to stop pushing for removal of sc.=
At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before re= moval of sc should be considered at all:
1. Currently vt BREA= KS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video cards, which just work fin= e with sc
2. vt does not support DPMS
3. plenty oth= er lesser bugs
Both things are valid reasons why many people = - including me - reject using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would fa= ctually downgrade the computers' capabilities and energy efficiency.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -= 0400
Ed Maste <emaste= @freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote:
> >
> > But the operative word there is "still", isn't it ?=
> >
> > There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing = is there ?
>
> Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support= to vt.
>

=C2=A0I don't think so.
=C2=A01/ It's useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machine= s
produced in the last 5 (10?) years do
=C2=A02/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate
driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver
will reduce power consumption on most machines.

--
Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@FreeBSD.org>

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