From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 10 16:25:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E34106568E; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664538FC24; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn14 with SMTP id hn14so3163192wib.13 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:25:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=RAETsMS+s0uDJFgdyV1EtjKZ0eMM7fdhVWPebNGStoY=; b=cJyYBj1h1I455zbbD/wRbPPmYkW+1Fq4tC/fb+9bf1gXcrzg826sa2oKEHnPXKBQ9g XRT2J8ZtgcmvK2ZrZ9wNrfCLJZ9zLJV1Gox0XlL+DqtrcUD3kAx9PvIggH7+d5SNY3eK wGXoSTJACqgj6ixvCVOnPErMRtVV0PZDjdYB0= Received: by 10.180.83.70 with SMTP id o6mr4127310wiy.19.1328891138318; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:25:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.103.10 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:25:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1328887627.38277.68.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> References: <1328887627.38277.68.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> From: Eitan Adler Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:25:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: Gavin Atkinson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnC7cxhb6tXIkaj2tcOtXba4UK+jli4kSXHP32P8ZTHmkB2HpXv8LWoX2LarvbazlQnQerA Cc: Chris Rees , freebsd-current Current , "Wojciech A. Koszek" , Colin Percival Subject: Re: Enhancing the user experience with tcsh X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:25:40 -0000 Picking a random email to reply to. My goal with this email is to reduce the amount of "controversial" changes. commit 3ea4ea3a59d14cb060244618dd89d7dd0170bee1 diff --git a/etc/root/dot.cshrc b/etc/root/dot.cshrc --- a/etc/root/dot.cshrc +++ b/etc/root/dot.cshrc @@ -7,9 +7,10 @@ alias h history 25 alias j jobs -l -alias la ls -a +alias la ls -aF alias lf ls -FA -alias ll ls -lA +alias ll ls -lAF +alias ls ls -F Two people didn't like these changes but didn't explain why. This is incredibly helpful, especially for a new user. If you dislike the alias change please explain what bothers you about it? # A righteous umask umask 22 @@ -17,15 +18,19 @@ umask 22 set path = (/sbin /bin /usr/sbin /usr/bin /usr/games /usr/local/sbin /usr/local/bin $HOME/bin) setenv EDITOR vi -setenv PAGER more +setenv PAGER less setenv BLOCKSIZE K No one complained about this - it is almost certainly going to stay it the final version. if ($?prompt) then # An interactive shell -- set some stuff up - set prompt = "`/bin/hostname -s`# " + set prompt = "[%n@%m]%c04%# " + set promptchars = "%#" Many people had alternative suggestions for the prompt. Can you please clarify why you believe your prompt should be the _default_ one? While many admins are able to deal with short non-descriptive prompts it helps new users to have more detail on the prompt line. I'd like to commit some change to the default: currently it is very undescriptive. I am leaving open which prompt I am going with at the end though. set filec - set history = 100 - set savehist = 100 + set history = 10000 + set savehist = 10000 No one complained about this one - it is almost certainly going to stay it the final version. + set autolist set autolist=ambiguous makes sense here - I will likely go with that. + # Use history to aid expansion + set autoexpand No one complained about this - it is almost certainly going to stay it the final version. Now to address some comments made in the thread. I'm sorry for not preserving attribution here. > How about adding stuff like this to /usr/share/examples/tcsh/complete.tcsh ? > Along with a comment in .cshrc pointing to that file (or even a commented line to source it), it would be an improvement. +1 I'll add a comment addressing this file. > I use the $HOME/bin on my machines but I am not so sure to make this a general thing. Many people expect it, and given that it is the last item in the path it won't affect all that much. > The main problem of this is: novice user don't know how to enable some "advanced" settings for default FreeBSD shell (csh / tcsh) or even don't know they exist. This is why I want to make the defaults a little bit nicer. > I think that default FreeBSD install should be more friendly to new users. +10000 > That's why I am propossing better support of command completion "out of the box". > ... I am fine with this change. It is better than nothing. :) Good. Lets start with incremental positive steps :) >If tcsh could be updated to version 6.18.00 "set autorehash" would be >really nice. With that you'll never have to type "rehash" again. :) This would solve one of the most frequently asked questions on the mailing list and IRC channel. Is there any objection to setting this once tcsh is updated? > The question becomes "how much is too much?" This is why I want to keep my patch minimal. It is better at this moment to miss a few good changes to the default tcsh than make a large number of bad ones. We could always edit the file again if we find a better set of defaults. -- Eitan Adler