From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Feb 18 16:25:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58ACF23F37D for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:25:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic303-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic303-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.188.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48MR6D71wRz4GBx for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:25:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: KjjP0b4VM1lDoRL.77CnXq.VrAQH.wGRENafxWrjNdhr_Chjll.Arr83393_e5y Xp8MkgWveSIvOyljVfm.QpFFzxs0n93bsCKHG3XPY9B9k2LnzeW7jtMaf.1i8m9RyMH.0pqaQpoT v2dcWildcA.J_cdFxWDCqRa8M4PihD2o3geEisKmq6jqc7tA6l3pg.uopE9kbSFWuKJM6Y_2X4fp gxldWdSxAu7.w4ggMfi8aginLPcRChqKivZQpxXabVXDZlaAP_JhpbJ46APrISHQ7EdMKRawnKz6 jd8Gi_gwzhBhkYfsGJUSU0Y8DzZLgJm.39xcYs3bU7msXEtRDxWaOkVNIPkbmgpxCYz6OwH.uJVe 1i4fe4Q7lzhnbP4x9a7ctXaL_.oWv3Qn14ulbTX_rlAFdYBNJ1uC13rZnpgjRAhzBLpYq.gB2f7c ShL8kBvVKSPDc0CwACsSfodd0qSOU.3WrKOnG8CpT0TF30EDhUBXUKZ9nHbiDfzNKD7CdHDQqJq0 GVVfivcsCSdoNtZMW8oi13ParU4u0XE2TI4RPK_8c5gdP03Hic.8uXwMdQjnsNH9r8Bf55A.Y3kL fg2iEbHcVuQuUmNtxRVX4Oa9zyvg7PF.ADVOqujYZDebY3K9KN8viEKXqClZz3DbJbSn1rr51nwO .hpyw9h0xojVNBwZ6iQ50xG4ycOuIypDVF5E5H1kIn6uMDJX5Jq3a4fS9oYXjGoMEZpFnS_Cx0wK PWd3uf5WTVADwCX9n0izQk4nsYcSGnyMqC_NHc45RINwgcJkBuqaxh.gxPlkI8M5G6lu8crfpGUM M4mNFr99NyzrjA6.nAYmuCSj4VkgunKwyyNF.0jXDYQSWN.j9SjxqppgJnWqXeRkccmfZNL3._9b c8TJ7EodNJuxZWPeWuAUW_dU6f54S7Sx6Xp7CSlUc3Us_SW7yHJhBJmDl_54LQqoxKaub1R_alk7 ERAfvndeDu.ygfLLQX4K1QoHbJk0ReTOz1uEwUAtK3z2EKrxxlIQTStjZs1zJZOYqUrlj445g2yF bPGjHKUJkrnvBYNwMUD2gtbOKFNltXYGlXVsmAaoGXPlhFtP7NP6BKF146JbuwvRW6q6erxjXWCJ XHj3FxQgssytwiFrGUjTpsih9eij7K1nx3SV5BRqn5RW.bJF02OZULDEOS7bEdogT1537AyNjrdr DwqN1dP7PY.7M2nB0BGytdaW1FeFhu1SSGULsGV.mOHDtzi4YQLx801.M8gLLo3WNtje6Oojumrr XfkBKVKs5hybRMOmP5R9G0rt2XY5Z009yUZgnUM8uangKyVIFFKXR6R6ViMQBf5TmwY7ZAnu0nJY RTk6qbamy2z3hZFBzFNPHxBUqA_KJ1.SXtWlHN5az.0It.g-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:25:22 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:25:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: "@lbutlr" , Valeri Galtsev Cc: FreeBSD Message-ID: <1272310515.4633961.1582043117362@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <05112EEC-7FA3-4E18-974B-263A58058E01@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> <05112EEC-7FA3-4E18-974B-263A58058E01@kicp.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15199 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:73.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/73.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48MR6D71wRz4GBx X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.60 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.63)[0.631,0]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.188.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RBL_MAILSPIKE_BAD(1.00)[147.188.163.66.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.12]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (4.47), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.17), asn: 36646(0.94), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.965,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 16:25:26 -0000 Hi, And, as an alternative to my personal workstations running FreeBSD with KDE= , my middle-aged gf and her 85 yo mother are running GhostBSD which are rea= lly quite nice. Also, I'm someone who fully supports the 4 minor rev (please can we stop th= e .4 release on a major rev?) on a version.=C2=A0 It is the only way to kee= p moving forward with the speed of things being developed in the industry.= =C2=A0 Although I totally disagree with Agile (as do its authors), I do bel= ieve that the traditional, software engineering practice of project plan, p= roject items, engineering, qa/test, and release works quite well. It allows to have a major underpinning, version like 12, and go forward wit= h stable, incremental enhancements and bug-fixes.=C2=A0 Personally, all the= crazy things like Waterfall, Agile etc are just bandages for lack of commu= nication between engineering and operations in most corporations.=C2=A0 I'v= e always been amazed that I can take a .0 and run it.=C2=A0 I've n= ever seen anything like that in the Linux Kernel or a MS Windows release. I tend to think of a Version from start to finish to be .0 to .{3,4}..... In FreeBSD, that's upwards of 4-5 years.=C2=A0 To not upgr= ade from a minor version to the next is to say "I'm not going to do mainten= ance and you can't make me".=C2=A0 It's shortsighted and not proper system = administration. My $0.02, Paul On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 9:27:59 AM EST, Valeri Galtsev wrote: =20 =20 =20 > On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:00 AM, @lbutlr wrote: >=20 > On 17 Feb 2020, at 20:23, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: >> Why so short End-Of-Life? Why so many fast and short releases? What for? >=20 > This was vcovered a few years ago (well, =E2=80=9Cfew=E2=80=9D when the n= ew timelines were being discussed. >=20 >> What was wrong with having one well tested stable system for a long time= ? >=20 > The need to ensure systems are running secure software and are not trivia= lly exploitable. >=20 >> FreeBSD does not seem to be reliable desktop environment >=20 > True for ever non-Apple Unix variant. Most (that is to say nearly all) Fr= eeBSD installs are non0desktop servers. >=20 I have workstation (desktop) running FreeBSD. One of the systems my Laptop = runs is FreeBSD as well. Nothing unreliable about both. And from what is sa= id on this list, I=E2=80=99m not the only one. Valeri >=20 >=20 > --=20 > I WILL NOT CARVE GODS Bart chalkboard Ep. 8F11 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Feb 18 17:19:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40C32407F4 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:18:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48MSJ23wBtz4TZp for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:18:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.36.223]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MK3iK-1ijoTg15Li-00LZVe; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:18:54 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:18:53 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Yasuhiro KIMURA Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to build and install only part of base source tree Message-Id: <20200218181853.846d2e1a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200218.101420.353584891979293358.yasu@utahime.org> References: <20200218.101420.353584891979293358.yasu@utahime.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; 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dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.24) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.48 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[223.36.8.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.969,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.95)[0.951,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[24.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.16)[ip: (-0.24), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.12), asn: 8560(2.19), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:19:00 -0000 On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 10:14:20 +0900 (JST), Yasuhiro KIMURA wrote: > I would like to add new feature to base system. My idea is simple but > I'm not sure if it can be implemented as is expected. Therefore I > think some trial and error will be necessary. To test it I need to > > (1) Edit some C source files. > (2) Build and install one command and some library files. > > And doing buildworld and installworld each time I change source files > is too heavy to repeat. > > Then are there any way to build and install only part of base source > tree? First of all, there's /etc/src.conf to control aspects of the whole build process (see "man 5 src.conf"). Additionally, you can change into a specific program's directory within the source tree, then build and install it from there, for example: # /usr/src/usr.bin/mt [... you change mt.c ...] # make # make install However be careful that, depending on the kind of changes you make, it's possible that you need to rebuild other programs or libraries, too. While "make buildworld" and "make installworld" will handle such changes in an optimal manner (also see the comment header of /usr/src/Makefile), the manual approach is quite convenient for smaller changes, and in case of user programs, can often be tested immediately. Note: The build process itself will take place in /usr/obj (if you're not changing this default), so always have a look at what happens over there. ;-) PS. I've done the same in /usr/src/sbin/fsck_ffs while trying to debug and finally solving a very rare data recovery problem. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...