From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 13 21:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D3F16A4D2; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:34:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1a.swcp.com (mx1a.swcp.com [216.184.2.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9482D43D4C; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:34:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from crs@swcp.com) Received: from taka.swcp.com (taka-216.swcp.com [216.184.2.3]) iBDLYOcA013196; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:34:25 -0700 Received: from quail.sorsby.org (sorsby.org [216.184.15.51]) by taka.swcp.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBDLYI5l029532; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from crs@localhost) by quail.sorsby.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11083; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from crs) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:34:18 -0700 (MST) From: Charlie Sorsby Message-Id: <200412132134.OAA11083@quail.sorsby.org> To: crs@swcp.com, grog@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20041212052253.GA38962@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.74, clamav-milter version 0.74a on av2.swcp.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on kaimen.swcp.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=10.0 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_SHORT autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: *** cc: questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Installing FreeBSD 4.5 (was: I'm confused...) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: crs@swcp.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:34:26 -0000 First, thank you for taking time out of your weekend to respond to my query. It's much appreciates. I apologize for taking so long to reply. As you can imagine, my system has been up and down and e-mail with it. > On Saturday, 11 December 2004 at 16:26:07 -0700, Charlie Sorsby wrote: > > Is the installer for freeBSD 4.5 broken? > > > > I've long procrastinated updating to a more recent version of > > freeBSD, mainly because I hate trying to get things back the way I > > had them afterwards. > > > > Consequently, I've been running 3.4 for quite a long while. Today, > > I finally decided to bite the bullet and update to 4.5, the most > > recent CD that I have. > > That's ancient, nearly three years old. I'm almost tempted to say > "after two years the installer stops working". But in any case, you > really shouldn't be installing such old software. Well, I finally got it go go through all of install -- what that means is still uncertain. But, for once, I took pretty thorough notes -- it's a shame that there's no way to log all of the intallation process. :( Yes, I understand why. On the last pass, it hung during installation of the packages that I'd selected on the cvsupit package. The last thing it said was "Package cvsupit-3.0 read successfully -- waiting for pkg_add(1)" ... I'd gone to bed -- it was the wee hours by then -- and when I checked in the morning I found (using ) that there was a page there titled "Branch selection menu" but it was unresponsive. Don't know why that went to the F2 console rather than the normal without so much as a "See ... with F2 ..." message. Anyways, using , I returned to the main screen and, grasping at straws, entered which took me to an "Installation interrupt" box with choices to abort, restart, and continue. Decided to see what would happen if I selected "Continue." That took me to a message box: "Add of package cvsupit-3.0 aborted, error code 1 -- Please check the debug screen for more info." There it simply said in a box "Aborting cvsup stup per user request." Returning to the main screen (F1), where, as I recall, the only choice was "[OK]", I entered -- Oops! on "modern" keyboards, it's ... -- and it resumed reading and adding packages. Anyways, it finally finished the rest of those and I went through the various other things (add user, set root password, etc.) After that, a "User Confirmation Menu" asked if I wanted to visit the "general configuration menu" to set any last options. "[NO" was highlighted so I just accepted that default. That took me back to the "/stand/sysinstall Main Menu" (which I thought is what would have happened if I'd answered "[YES]" but what do I know. Since I was there anyway I selected "Do post- install configuration" and tried (unsuccessfully as far as I could tell) to configure X. After that, I thought to hell with it and decided to go quail hunting after all since it was only 09:30 and the spot I was considering is only an hour and a half away. Well, the list(s) of Fn keys presented by the boot manager has, not unexpectedly, changed and I apparently selected the wrong one but I did manage to guess right a the "boot:" prompt and managed to get back to booting the disk that contains 3.4 and it still works. At least I'd have a working system while I was away... Well, when I got back and started experimenting again, I got it to boot to what purported to be freeBSD 4.5 -- but by this time I'm pretty burnt out and didn't even think to take notes so this is from memory. While it claimed to have booted to 4.5, the partitions that were mounted were those containing 3.4 and those on which I still have the stuff from 2.1.5. Put another way, while it claimed to have booted 4.5 it *looked* as though it had booted 3.4. I have *NO* idea what was going on. I've tried a couple of times, back and forth but, as I said, failed to take notes. Since 3.4 is still running (more or less normally as far as I can tell), I probably won't get to any more experimentation until this evening or tomorrow. I'll try to take more notes then but I may have changed a few things by manually mounting the 4.5 partitions and looking round. Here's /etc/fstab from the 4.5 root partition (this is apparently just as sysinstall created it -- I'm just now removing the extra tab that cause excessive line length and ugly random wraps from the following copy): # See the fstab(5) manual page for important information on automatic mounts # of network filesystems before modifying this file. # # Device Mountpoint FStype Options Dump Pass# /dev/da0s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/da0s2b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/da1s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/da2s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/da3s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/da3s1a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/da2s1e /home ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1g /old.home ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da0s2a /root.215 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1a /root.34 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da3s1h /spare ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da3s1e /usr ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da0s2f /usr.215 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1e /usr.34 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da0s2g /usr.local.215 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1h /usr.local.34 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da3s1g /usr/local ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da3s1f /var ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da0s2e /var.215 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1f /var.34 ufs rw 2 2 /dev/da1s1d /var/spool/news ufs rw 2 2 /dev/cd0c /cdrom cd9660 ro,noauto 0 0 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 The various mount points should be pretty much self explanatory. > Don't you have the facility to download a more recent ISO? Well, my original intent was to install 4.5 from the CDROM that I have and then, once that was working, to update from the net to a more recent version. Frankly, however, at this point I'm not sure how recent I shall go or whether I'll ever update beyond 4.x, not because of the problems with this installation -- it's quite possible that I managed to do something wrong somewhere along the lines, I Have been known to. Rather, the reason is that freeBSD is diverging more and more from BSD. I realize that that's in the good old Berkeley tradition but at least CSRG had the decency to call their version of Unix something other than Seventh Edition Unix or 32V and not pretend that it was still the same thing. There's also the fact that the freeBSD developers apparently have a very low opinion of the intelligence of their customers (for lack of a better term). First, instead of simply advising people that tcsh is recommended over csh, they chose to rename tcsh to csh and delete csh entirely (although I have been told that the real csh still exists in the ports collection). The fact of the developers preferring tcsh is not the problem; it is that they give the impression that they believe that those using their OS haven't the intelligence to decide for themselves what shell to use. Now, I find that the only thing in /usr/games is an empty subdirectory, /usr/games/hide; the contents of /usr/games has been a tradition of BSD since my very first Unix account -- and quite possibly of Seventh Edition Unix as well. Perhaps it is thought that those who would install freeBSD are too stupid to either make /usr/games inaccessible to users or even to remove it's contents if that's what *THEY*, the system's administrator, so wishes. Please don't say that it's because "There's *SO* much to put on the CD..." /usr/games on my 3.4 system consumes all of 1.337MB; as I scrolled through the packages collection Saturday night, I saw many much larger packages that are just as much fluff as /usr/games. The problem is, I think, a lack of a sense of tradition. Those are only two examples; I'll be very surprised if there is not a long list of things that the developers think they know better than their customers what those customers should use. I know it sounds as though I don't appreciate the work that the developers are doing. That is not so. I also realize that, since they are volunteers, they can do as they damned well please. Nor am I opposed to improving freeBSD; what I'm opposed to is changing its character. I never bought a PC until after FreeBSD--then still actually BSD--became available. I'd been spoilt at work by having access to real computers with real operating systems. When I'd experienced PCs at work, I found that DOS simply couldn't do what I wanted to do. Later when I tried Windows, I found that the contant reliance on the point-and-click paradigm was constantly getting in my way. FreeBSD made PCs useful to me. But I'm just one user and not a very important user at that. I'm sure that freeBSD will continue to evolve into something that I don't care to use. (You'll have noticed the capitalization and lack of it when I've typed [Ff]reeBSD. It's intentional.) > Greg > -- > When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. > If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. > For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Well, again, I thank you for your response. I'll try to take decent notes when I again try rebooting to 4.5 although that sure slows the process of installing and, now, debugging an installation. I don't write very fast... Kindest regards, Charlie -- Charlie Sorsby crs@swcp.com P. O. Box 1225 Edgewood, NM 87015 USA PS Which edition of your book is the one relevant to freeBSD 4.x?