From nobody Wed Jun 22 04:55:01 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D4C860C5B for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 04:55:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LSWKF2XJQz3J8v for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 04:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com with SMTP id t127so332437vsb.8 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:55:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/AbK7Hw3sNMxH0vblxrmL5xHK5XdEVJoAoaa8M8NNO8=; b=C7czEUqIeimcX+mconZUOKppk05qpYqqe6t1W1dDymMDuVnKcmjJJPRV+wEFjHDcgl dZUzm3kxibY2J3dXW4Cl0X/6UzGgS2fQDd5RX77Vl+vQ/F+VzK44uzbDGYnyHyiCj75A 6PBXqhKWl31MqafkQ8FtsUZRf6o1H6KBX29SJXqXxqeddZFYI5/IgD851It8DIIkvmrW IGqSeH0woac33NEpab5YjKiM2UMxBYunwRNoPFbTrxjNnQAmStZhM8V2V0wM/UFgsfHx c5nNUHKNQSpdWqUfcqYBw8Ul/icQ1vyGCYYWaBMmHcOqhf5xhGdO5drS/hWNaNVF1VxA B9lA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/AbK7Hw3sNMxH0vblxrmL5xHK5XdEVJoAoaa8M8NNO8=; b=ULTVk0g9ggl69tWPtUmgfh5JzIImMXNMq1pyJ4ucZP1iBRji9MfqgG++KBru9B+827 0MPEoQK1cOlsz47xUsCWaO/jJwxYttWCi6gDsVTzuxPtvkpTMEeaQFRB6WB6jiec7rzv knBuEa4/xR2cD2QofY9iTCb3lQLINpzustsK01R0YnmsAW9EbzQBgD7kPl6I8ZIDj2vJ dSTefn7tGvQ6MX5QDJoT6AMvvrAtlVmgrmHGyQIGGOKv6WDAFDOkOSSTGbtWHV6cUsAz CaQNXi3D7qsNgYVn50y5JHVeHWDcPj+wVIZ9EcuUEqvBxYL2BJLkXf3nAhda65cYYZHx Jp7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+wP3KRcJDeUphpgLWNjFFe52Gp2jyNmvGmvoOaI+m+EEnwyJHY qylelt+8+pTljR94b6JkNXicW/Jva9k6URx1g/DVrQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1ug5320S1kwsx3KE6/khnhkGduitZsu7csfAHfHzBWy0NMkT8ykX6KuqZ44l3McddIOBx6fMSHbTAI7EIx38X0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:cd90:0:b0:354:5028:f253 with SMTP id r16-20020a67cd90000000b003545028f253mr2793577vsl.6.1655873712805; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:55:12 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211126160454.3eb827365a02103169ab9adc@bidouilliste.com> <20220621201924.e9b96876c947140ac1f3b7a4@bidouilliste.com> <3d09c86a-9840-f8bf-4725-8098d958a01d@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> <202206211901.25LJ1uBd067376@critter.freebsd.dk> <20220622044923.6e2fac81c1e8205872d9de11@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:55:01 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reasons for keeping sc(4) and libvgl ? To: Stefan Blachmann Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , Ed Maste , Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000071ecd805e202242c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4LSWKF2XJQz3J8v X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.s=20210112 header.b=C7czEUqI; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2a) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.31)[-0.308]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2a:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --00000000000071ecd805e202242c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 9:47 PM Stefan Blachmann wrote: > I would kindly ask to stop pushing for removal of sc. > It will die soon enough if it doesn't become giant locked soon... Warner At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before removal of sc > should be considered at all: > 1. Currently vt BREAKS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video > cards, which just work fine with sc > 2. vt does not support DPMS > 3. plenty other lesser bugs > Both things are valid reasons why many people - including me - reject > using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would factually downgrade the > computers' capabilities and energy efficiency. > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot > wrote: > >> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -0400 >> Ed Maste wrote: >> >> > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp >> wrote: >> > > >> > > But the operative word there is "still", isn't it ? >> > > >> > > There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing is >> there ? >> > >> > Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support >> to vt. >> > >> >> I don't think so. >> 1/ It's useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machines >> produced in the last 5 (10?) years do >> 2/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate >> driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver >> will reduce power consumption on most machines. >> >> -- >> Emmanuel Vadot >> >> --00000000000071ecd805e202242c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 9:47 PM Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com> wrote:
I would kindly = ask to stop pushing for removal of sc.
=

It will die soon enough if it= doesn't become giant locked soon...

<= div dir=3D"auto">Warner=C2=A0

At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before re= moval of sc should be considered at all:
1. Currently vt BREA= KS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video cards, which just work fin= e with sc
2. vt does not support DPMS
3. plenty oth= er lesser bugs
Both things are valid reasons why many people = - including me - reject using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would fa= ctually downgrade the computers' capabilities and energy efficiency.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilli= ste.com> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -0400
Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk= > wrote:
> >
> > But the operative word there is "still", isn't it ?=
> >
> > There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing = is there ?
>
> Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support= to vt.
>

=C2=A0I don't think so.
=C2=A01/ It's useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machine= s
produced in the last 5 (10?) years do
=C2=A02/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate
driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver
will reduce power consumption on most machines.

--
Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@FreeBSD.org>= ;

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