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Date:      Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:55:01 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com>
Cc:        Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>, Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org>,  Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Reasons for keeping sc(4) and libvgl ?
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfoRCB5RuszKWTQazRuseRnapVqMTANnQTR0b61AHw54aQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CACc-My0q-Ods_O-TDru=tEwjSOaUJZZd=ZTzD46nY1gjGYO_VA@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <20211126160454.3eb827365a02103169ab9adc@bidouilliste.com> <20220621201924.e9b96876c947140ac1f3b7a4@bidouilliste.com> <3d09c86a-9840-f8bf-4725-8098d958a01d@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> <202206211901.25LJ1uBd067376@critter.freebsd.dk> <CAPyFy2Ca83X042jc5QE-g=eHAfnukHScrTSyaLRi4UxeTBasJQ@mail.gmail.com> <20220622044923.6e2fac81c1e8205872d9de11@bidouilliste.com> <CACc-My0q-Ods_O-TDru=tEwjSOaUJZZd=ZTzD46nY1gjGYO_VA@mail.gmail.com>

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On Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 9:47 PM Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would kindly ask to stop pushing for removal of sc.
>

It will die soon enough if it doesn't become giant locked soon...

Warner

At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before removal of sc
> should be considered at all:
> 1. Currently vt BREAKS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video
> cards, which just work fine with sc
> 2. vt does not support DPMS
> 3. plenty other lesser bugs
> Both things are valid reasons why many people - including me - reject
> using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would factually downgrade the
> computers' capabilities and energy efficiency.
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -0400
>> Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > But the operative word there is "still", isn't it ?
>> > >
>> > > There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing is
>> there ?
>> >
>> > Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support
>> to vt.
>> >
>>
>>  I don't think so.
>>  1/ It's useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machines
>> produced in the last 5 (10?) years do
>>  2/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate
>> driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver
>> will reduce power consumption on most machines.
>>
>> --
>> Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@FreeBSD.org>
>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 9:47 PM Stefan Blachmann &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sblachmann@gmail.com">sblachmann@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I would kindly =
ask to stop pushing for removal of sc.</div></div></blockquote></div></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It will die soon enough if it=
 doesn&#39;t become giant locked soon...</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">Warner=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div>At least these long-running vt issues should be solved before re=
moval of sc should be considered at all:<br></div><div>1. Currently vt BREA=
KS suspend/resume on nvidia and many other video cards, which just work fin=
e with sc<br></div><div>2. vt does not support DPMS</div><div>3. plenty oth=
er lesser bugs<br></div><div>Both things are valid reasons why many people =
- including me - reject using vt on nvidia cards, because using it would fa=
ctually downgrade the computers&#39; capabilities and energy efficiency.<br=
></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:50 AM Emmanuel Vadot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:manu@bidouilliste.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">manu@bidouilli=
ste.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:23:42 -0400<br>
Ed Maste &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:emaste@freebsd.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">emaste@freebsd.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; On Tue, 21 Jun 2022 at 15:02, Poul-Henning Kamp &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
phk@phk.freebsd.dk" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">phk@phk.freebsd.dk=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; But the operative word there is &quot;still&quot;, isn&#39;t it ?=
<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; There is nothing which prevents vt(4) from doing the right thing =
is there ?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Just a simple matter of programming. We should indeed add dpms support=
 to vt.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
=C2=A0I don&#39;t think so.<br>
=C2=A01/ It&#39;s useless when you boot with uefi which 100% of the machine=
s<br>
produced in the last 5 (10?) years do<br>
=C2=A02/ If you really want to save power, use drm with the appropriate<br>
driver. Even without runtime power management just loading the driver<br>
will reduce power consumption on most machines.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Emmanuel Vadot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:manu@bidouilliste.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">manu@bidouilliste.com</a>&gt; &lt;manu@FreeBSD.org&gt=
;<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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