Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 01:28:17 +1000 From: Da Rock <freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver? Message-ID: <4F031E91.1040602@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20120103100608.15f8d2d1@scorpio> References: <CAFpTYWM3ppJsVo-qZC=OXWHW1U5zAt3y5m==6hFw3JQNH%2B5NAg@mail.gmail.com> <4F02A3CE.7020404@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120103071028.4964dd33@scorpio> <4F030E00.5020806@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120103100608.15f8d2d1@scorpio>
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On 01/04/12 01:06, Jerry wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:17:36 +1000 > Da Rock articulated: > >> On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: >>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 >>> Da Rock articulated: >>> >>>> On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: >>>>> I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek >>>>> RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize >>>>> this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. >>>>> >>>>> Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web >>>>> someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to >>>>> work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy >>>>> thing sticking out like it does. >>>>> >>>> Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd >>>> does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on >>>> the todo list or not. Try a search on google... >>> This is what drives me to pull my hair out. I have stated several >>> times that all the *nix/*BSD consortium needs to do to become truly >>> competitive in the market is to devise a uniform API that works the >>> same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every other non-windows based >>> system. The concept is so simple that it amazes me that it was not >>> implemented eons ago. >>> >>> The problem is that the non-windows operating system authors all >>> behave live little children. None of them can simply get along. The >>> all have to insist that "they" have the best and everyone else is >>> wrong. They swing between Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. >>> You would have an easier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit >>> down at a table and enjoy a ham dinner than you have of getting the >>> powers that be in the non-windows community to agree to anything, >>> other than their hatred of Microsoft of course. >>> >>> I have spoken with representatives of companies, the last one being >>> Brother International, who plain out stated that they only support >>> Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest and best documented >>> system for driver installation) and a vanilla Linux solution. They >>> openly stated that there is no way that they would even attempt to >>> write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/*BSD community >>> and then be straddled with the problem of supporting such software. >>> Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an "i" in the >>> kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to rewrite >>> their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be assigned. >>> >>> Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful and fully >>> functional desktop, I read where they were working on making it >>> possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows OS >>> usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extracting >>> the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. >>> Now that is what I call true "forward" thinking. >>> >>> The authors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of >>> group of of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship >>> sank. The best case scenario at that point would be to be rescued >>> by another passing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur >>> it would seem logical to grab onto any object that floated by and >>> thereby allow the stranded individual a better chance at survival. >>> If these were Ubuntu survivors there would be no question as to >>> what they would choose to do, as well as some of the more enlighten >>> *nix" users. However, the *BSD users, especially the FreeBSD ones >>> would rather drown than accept a solution that was not counter to >>> what everyone else was trying to accomplish. >>> >>> I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are no drivers for >>> lots of devices currently available on the market, especially the >>> higher end ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. There are >>> drivers for these devices, and other OSs are taking advantage of >>> them. FreeBSD, in its unending war against simplicity and continued >>> insistence on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of >>> them. >>> >>> You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop it from >>> running head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupidity IS >>> its own punishment. >>> >>> It took the Catholic church until 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei >>> was correct and the earth does rotate around the sun. So there is >>> hope. Perhaps someday FreeBSD will become "enlightened" also. >>> >> Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in >> this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore >> the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. >> >> Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk >> (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we >> should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. > FreePiss, etcetera and their API's are like cheese and chalk! How the > hell did you come up with that analogy? Further, who the hell is MAC's > relative? To move right along, if a driver all ready exists for a > device why not take full advantage of it? Obviously, you failed to read > my statement regarding a unified API. There has been a serious push I > have observed on the Linux forums towards consolidation of resources > which would lead to a higher quality product. Gnome and even KDE are > considering allocating their resources towards a more fully Linux based > environment thereby reducing the time wasted in a really vain attempt > to support every OS in sight. A unified API would be a tremendous asset > in this goal and reduce considerable the lag time in getting drivers > into practical circulation on a given OS. > >> And thats not even touching the licensing issues. Or the simple >> design policies (such as userspace or kernel modules) that differ >> from platform to platform. > Please see the statement regarding a unified API. > >> Some ray of hope allowed some linux drivers to reach the horizon, but >> so far only usb is remotely possible. > I don't know what you are writing about here and I doubt that you do. > >> Perhaps you might become enlightened enough to do the research (like >> I did) on the background and core details of what is involved before >> you start a rant such as this. This has been brought to your >> attention before, only recently in fact. >> >> Start with an introduction to OS design textbook and you may just >> barely touch the tip of the iceberg... > There is all ready work being done by Ubuntu and apparently others on > creating a workable model for using existing drivers, originally > designed for the Windows architecture on non-windows system. There is > no reason to reinvent the wheel when it only needs a paint job. > >> And if you see us as people floating in the ocean after a ship sank, >> why are you still here then? > I don't know; maybe I just enjoy watching people drown. Wouldn't surprise me. > What you really should be asking yourself is why, if your business > model for FreePiss is so fundamentally sound then why is it always > trailing every other OS in desktop usability? Your own response to the > OP of this tread stated that a perfectly good driver fully available on > another OS, one not even associated with Microsoft, was unusable in the > FreePiss environment. Didn't it even remotely occur to you that a > uniformed API would alleviate that problem or are you so territorial > that, that concept is alien to you? And it appears to be so alien to you that M$ might possibly not allow a unified API between closed and open source in _your_ so called free society, or that what make other systems different _is_ the API, license, policies, etc. You cannot change a system so fundamentally without _breaking_ it- *any* system. Have you had any experience in any of the fields you even claim to be knowledgeable in? I know university lecturers who aren't so don't even try to hide behind letter suffixes. Do some research and learning, and grow some knowledge. Then we might be able to talk on the same level. If you want your proof you find it- its not up to anyone else. To the OP: we apologise for this interruption to the scheduled programming, and await ready to answer any questions you may have :)
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