From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 1 19:40:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850A7CB7 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:40:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from mail.ultra-secure.de (mail.ultra-secure.de [78.47.114.122]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C649026E9 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:40:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 57786 invoked by uid 89); 1 Aug 2013 19:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO linux-wb36.example.org) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@217.71.83.52) by mail.ultra-secure.de with ESMTPA; 1 Aug 2013 19:36:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:36:05 +0200 From: Rainer Duffner To: "Chris H" Subject: Re: Please remove Perl from ports Message-ID: <20130801213605.5043fc25@linux-wb36.example.org> In-Reply-To: References: <622977670ec4e80b844c5c6c978ae6f6.authenticated@ultimatedns.net> <51FA8BED.3060103@missouri.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.7; i586-suse-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-stable X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:40:03 -0000 Am Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:32:47 -0700 (PDT) schrieb "Chris H" : > Greetings Stephen, and thank you for your thoughtful reply. > > On 08/01/2013 10:31 AM, Chris H wrote: > > > >> So, in the end; why did Perl have to be relocated? Is my only > >> recourse at this point to > >> # cd / > >> # rm -rf . > > > > When I get into this kind of bad situation, I usually do something > > slightly less drastic: > > # pkg_delete -a > > # find -d /usr/local -type d -exec rmdir {} \; > > This last command removes empty directories in /usr/local (it also > > produces lots of error messages when it tries to remove non-empty > > directories). Then I look through the contents of /usr/local, > > especially if there is anything in /usr/local/etc > > or /usr/local/libexec where some of my manually changed > > configuration files reside. And then I delete any crud left over > > that I know I don't need. > > > > After that, I rebuild all the ports from scratch. > > > > Finally, I do understand why you feel the need to vent, and I don't > > want to belittle your feelings of frustration. But I do think > > everyone is trying their best. > I believe this for the most part, as well. Being, and having been > involved in a vast multitude of large projects, over the years. Has > given me a keen understanding of all the burdens, one can come to > expect. The many, many hours w/o sleep. The seemingly never ending > stress that comes from frequently running right up to, or beyond > deadlines. Having to greet rabid users with a calm tone, and a smile. > As such, and with the nearly 30yrs. using *BSD, I have come to expect > quite a bit more, than I have experienced, in recent months. Make no > mistake; I have no intention of throwing the baby out w/ the bath > water here. But *recent* changes have given me cause for alarm. That > the BSD I have come to know, love, and greatly depend on. Is becoming > something *quite* different. And if I don't say something, how will > those the make the changes know what their user base thinks? How will > they know what affects those changes has on them? Frankly, I *still* > have no idea why it was _so_ important to change the install > structure for Perl on FreeBSD. I don't know either (I've yet switch-over allmost all my systems), but I do believe that with the availability of pkgng, users who don't use it are in for a _very_ rough ride. It's not written out anywhere (TTBOMK), but the writing is on the wall. That said, I honestly think that without pkgng, we ($work) would have to ditch FreeBSD almost completely - simply because "/usr/sbin/pkg_*" are useless once the number of systems you have outnumbers the number of fingers on one hand. While a case can be made that a lot of the problems can be scripted around, a similar case can be made that all of it *just works* in Ubuntu-land - and that even relieves you of the "burden" to build the packages via poudriere (which is quite a bit of work, if you try to bring some sense of API-stability to your systems by not just svn up'ing ports every day and building that). Transisition to pkgng has been very smooth for us, BTW.