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Date:      Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:49:09 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Chuck Robey <chuckr@glue.umd.edu>
To:        Simon Shapiro <Shimon@i-Connect.Net>
Cc:        freebsd-SCSI@FreeBSD.ORG, filo@yahoo.com, dg@root.com
Subject:   Re: problems with reboot
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.96.970713124429.256B-100000@Journey2.mat.net>
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.970712182103.Shimon@i-Connect.Net>

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On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Simon Shapiro wrote:

> 
> Hi Chuck Robey;  On 12-Jul-97 you wrote: 
> 
> ...
> 
> > Is this always safe?  I've had some instances where a umount call simply
> > hung, and never returned.  I think they were either nfs or msdos mounts
> > that gave this trouble, but the umount call could not be kill'ed, and
> > making shutdown wait?  Would halt still work, as an emergency measure?
> > I know the FSs that were hung wouldn't be closed, but at least my ufs FSs
> > would be clean.
> 
> Network Failure system is a special case (i AM being nice :-);
> It is supposedly stateless and the mount is a client and thus not governing
> physical I/O.  a shutdown can (should) probably force a umount.  Even on a 
> local system, a forced umount is OK.  It is a FS issue.  But if the fs 
> layer calls a function that by definition blocks, it is ``none of the
> caller's business'' how/what the callee does and how long it takes.
> To assume anything on the nature if a callee's internals is not a good
> idea.  Here we have a live exapmple (why it is a bad idea).

I *think* the nfs failure was when I was learning how to correctly set up
a 3C503 for NFS.  Before I got that right, while experimenting, the second
action on an mount going thru the 3C503 would hang, and a forcible umount
would hang too.  That was OK, I could just shut down the machine.

I'm not sure here ... if your proposed fix would work on shutdown only,
but allow a halt or reboot under emergency conditions, then I'm in
agreement, and adding hooks to shutdown is a great path to take; if not,
then you can see my objection here, right?

----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@eng.umd.edu          | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114              | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------




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