From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 16 19:47:21 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C4B275D for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:47:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com (mail-pa0-f46.google.com [209.85.220.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 673251E8 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:47:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id lf10so14120225pab.33 for ; Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:47:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=FR4TwBX1LXu+dpLNSkJjrMsR1IJ2ySB3lZccKF8K1Lc=; b=jEIqAliz5LPiYHicqnovCAPwy4KcyQCru5/MP3tN+wOZIOn5MZh4oupApYSBwyP/mp ejG9kPpW5KASSoCMxOMUD3QiRMPaIL6mankf+2aRoKFMKqxszdkkYMJkhsTVa6U8km52 xYPlA/9hF19YMbp7hPfafCMl+YaGgZ3D/3AHco6MuERRAPfQaqUB52KZQnvxAQJbuJHs QWbH0v7bZ+gB1AOCn7mqj/GghN8nef6taX+LvEjZZCUgZhahFtv72BfC//G+nKJiVNFD P9KcyyJQLW2JoIuo0kCmFC+SXcyl7kktIxvwTn2NnXtsdaYsoicoxJuGVxA66T/+R5UK fJQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlc8R3Y3/gzttuDD736guWzPLIjeDeK9kLSaF1NwV+GcecFDX1Zab6MyMyyCpI8IngowR5O X-Received: by 10.68.57.144 with SMTP id i16mr63328124pbq.86.1418759240139; Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.64.27.55] ([69.53.236.236]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ug6sm1796241pab.7.2014.12.16.11.47.18 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:47:19 -0800 (PST) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Migration to dynamic libs for llvm and clang Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A5ED19A7-AC5E-440E-8907-8DE594C8A531"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b3 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <6D28CE1D-B94D-4E5E-B2DC-96C47E6C63BF@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 12:47:16 -0700 Message-Id: <098F3C6B-6DB4-472F-9CA0-D12BE5E37A19@bsdimp.com> References: <41F09A1C-01D6-42C9-B495-244DFC2B0364@FreeBSD.org> <74C51AC7-B7ED-4EBC-8506-1554C7CA31FF@FreeBSD.org> <15A17E31-22CA-4680-869B-3B7AC1E49741@bsdimp.com> <6D28CE1D-B94D-4E5E-B2DC-96C47E6C63BF@FreeBSD.org> To: Dimitry Andric X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:47:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A5ED19A7-AC5E-440E-8907-8DE594C8A531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Dimitry Andric wrote: >=20 > On 16 Dec 2014, at 18:54, Warner Losh wrote: >>=20 >>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:44 AM, Ed Maste wrote: >>>=20 >>> Fair enough, I'd definitely like to see fewer build-time knobs over >>> time, not more. >>=20 >> Until we stop using build-time knobs to control what=E2=80=99s in the = final image >> as a poor man=E2=80=99s packaging scheme, I expect the number of = knobs to >> continue to grow. >=20 > How does a packaging scheme solve the problem of not compiling in > dependencies, or linking everything static? You cannot pre-build all > possible combinations of selectable options. >=20 > As for knobs that just say "build foo" or "don't build bar", those = would > indeed be fine for a packaging system, as long as packages aren't too > dependent on each other. Right now we mix build options for building things or not (e.g. = WITH_SENDMAIL) with build options for things like this (WITH_SHARED_TOOLCHAIN). The = number of the former is increasing all the time (with a big increase when = Ngie=E2=80=99s work hits the tree). So in many senses, it is an orthogonal issue. My comment was more to Ed=E2=80=99s notion that these numbers will be dropping any time = soon. packing the base is actually a hard problem because the phrase =E2=80=9Cas= long as packages aren=E2=80=99t dependent on each other=E2=80=9D turns out to = not be the case as much as we might like. The base is fairly interdependent of all that = since we have it as one big ball of stuff right now. Most of the issues revolve = around dependence on the libraries and such. With patience and diligence, I = think we can package the base, but it isn=E2=80=99t going to be a trivial slam = dunk if it is going to be useful. Warner --Apple-Mail=_A5ED19A7-AC5E-440E-8907-8DE594C8A531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUkIxFAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEAxzQP/2o98z/7Y9Tlc3ZrxHBxHU+X ij1svutS4QQV210j3JYAvKEgWBQambnAg1rO2uFhg48zbZd+Zf8SFe/l0+Tf7oGm aCE2/bONVJrGesR10DkHWXfx50Z9dqIfzapZQJ+z6//NHMO7bSYhFd1XFUQB9xIG WQfpJAX3BPu74reIsfHmT4R32BRlVdSY+4LX8AjLqtDSCTDib96pnDj6EwjFl79e NoA39WXG2C/eg6OZQyDX0q29nVqLpZNEh2o+WL+H1cOU48KE0ezotAtr4nt/Kwrl 2U9s6WP+QZkXv9Bd6XKz4h4DEdlz3pVmlg2F4qbz0pAUjPbGaltRQl2tFBFwcqcQ 9Jxapy27tDV0tIX0J29ZrTLT6Hn41FOeXDH9OeRa0ZIiElXMXUaRssm6yLr4B8II KpCUJ1cXxefNfasfyyZKxudG4efIvDpsyhkqwY1sWHnY9xi/YcYGZZ2HJj0/aJxA y25preqXFwUQr0/yYEg98WIGMsWEQPB8QY8XA7tNGNJWWzsN8gWxRdaYSd0zpMa7 vXPNsyNmPx9DntHFhT8/iYRvFr9jmg1y1aGffxClkx7yQfODPuweWRKlkWK/If/u g+tlBlKcl06yXf1SSeXtVzkVQ+SAtjYpQGk6nTryT6WGQOj3KNSfZo+lxNQ5Wqow MhS8C8Pz0cJFhL6FDUM7 =wTKG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_A5ED19A7-AC5E-440E-8907-8DE594C8A531--